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Romney's The Man

Cyrone Torbin said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17495375

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/4898554.stm
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I was unaware of those stories. Truly gross.

However, it is important to remember that Sao Paulo is a city of 20+ million. I still think your chances of being kidnapped are pretty low if you stay in the right areas.

You will probably fly into Sao Paulo. But I personally wouldn't stay there. You could find work one hour south near the beach and I think you'd be much safer.
 
The Thriller said:
I was unaware of those stories. Truly gross.

However, it is important to remember that Sao Paulo is a city of 20+ million. I still think your chances of being kidnapped are pretty low if you stay in the right areas.

You will probably fly into Sao Paulo. But I personally wouldn't stay there. You could find work one hour south near the beach and I think you'd be much safer.
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I have no idea what the average kidnap rate is for major foreign cities, but yeah, I have heard a lot about kidnapping in Brazil.
 
If it was not for my kids (which is why I live where I do) I would live somewhere exotic (Brazil, thailand, S Africa...).
 
You say socialist like it's a bad thing. Does the common man think socialism = communism?
Is Obama turning American in China? Old USSR?

We'll never be like that, but are all their ideas wrong?
Here in Germany they are taxed more, but they have universal health care. I haven't found
one German that would give this up. I'm sure they are out there, but I ask my co-workers, and
friends questions about the german system. It's been described to me as "social capitalist". Higher taxes, but
everyone is covered. There are strong social systems in place to help people. "Kinder geld" is a popular one here
to help needy families.

When people state "Obama is a socialist" are they trying to say he is a communist? He wants to control everything?
Seems like people are fogetting liberalism wants to put more rights in your hands. Pro-choice, drugs, sexual, etc.

Universal Health Care does not = communism.
 
The kernel concept in positing some other countries as a place of refuge from the US "corrupt politics" is deeply flawed. The US is the only nation with substantial human rights. Everywhere else, your rights relate to your financial means and status in some way. The problem here is not our constitution or basic culture, but our drift away from what freedom/liberty we once enjoyed, for whatever reasons. Everywhere else, it would be an uphill battle to get even a few people to start talking like the ordinary citizen should have inviolable human rights. They know they have none, and don't dare "talk crazy" like that.

Here in Utah, there are still folks who will say our Constitution was divinely inspired, and that our rights come from God, and some like me who will say whether there is a God or not, human beings have inate and purely natural rights, and that any government trampling those rights should not be respected or supported, and that folks of any party who don't respect your rights should not get your vote.

And that is the fundamental reason no one should vote for Romney, who supports the HSA and Patriot Act, and supports sending our military people abroad in service of vague United Nation objectives of securing "compliance" from other natiions, in complete disregard if not outright hostility to basic human rights people all over the world should have.

The one "liberal" political organization I have joined is Amnesty International. I know personally of many ordinary folks who have in various places been thrown into hell-hole slammers for no reason except the petty personal pique of some local hustler operating for his own personal politcal gain. If we don not take a stand on principle for human rights, and use any possible influence we can have in support of justice, there simply will be no justice. Taking down the constitutional guarantees of our human rights for any reason just opens the door to wholesale abuse by people in positions of power, and cuts the legs off any lawyer trying to get justice for you personally.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
No, basically he's wrong because he's wrong. It's not my opinion that Obama isn't a socialist, it's true by definition, given the meaning of socialist. So, if I were to call Romney a Nazi, and you said I was wrong, given how Nazi is defined, is that merely your opinion, or is it true by definition. Here's a hint--it's the latter.

I repeat, those who call Obama a socialist are overwhelming drawn from the more extreme, ideological wing of the Republican party, who strongly tend as well to get their information from right wing sources. So it's a reasonable inference that someone here on this board who makes this claim is (a) highly conservative Republican and (b) gets a good chunk of his/her information from right wing sources than confirm his/her pre-existing biases.

No, I attack opinions I think are stupid, bigoted, ignorant, or based on faulty information. I much less inclined to attack people who actually show evidence of independent or reasoned thought, such as Colton, with whom I disagree on the lottery issue but whom I've treated, I think, with respect. You on the other hand give every evidence of being an unreflective partisan hack so I take a more aggressive approach with you.

I mention by independence because you have on more than one occasion accused me of partisanship. Although I have opinons on matters, they are not driven by party identification or identification with a particular ideological tradition. This does not appear to be the case with you.
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Way to make everything about you and your vast intellect, hack.
 
How is it that the people in either party whether it be Democrat or Republican can't see the utter ridiculousness of the clams made be each side? Both have this extreme view of one another, and neither find that kind of strange, or odd that their opinions would be so different. They both just think the other is evil or stupid

I would say Obama is closer to center than left. Doesn't he seem to try and appease both sides?

I really I can't tell much of a difference between either side anyways. Of course they both sound a lot different but what they do seems a lot a like.

I find myself somewhere in the middle or more like a half breed.
I'm against abortion
I'm for national health care. I don't really see anything good coming from health care for profit. And it's the humane thing to do.
I'm for small goverment and low taxes. Infact, why can't we just do a flat tax? Im tired of only some pay taxes and some don't.
I don't like welfare for the rich or the poor, but I do think we need social security.
I think we should spend even more on education and improve it. Extend the public education system through college
Im for the free market but with regulations.
just to name a few

The point is that our country is a mix between both sides. Which is good I guess because it creates balance. I have always assumed that it is nature's way of creating a natural balance so that people would have to come to agreement that ends somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't it be easier though just to be a RATIONAL person and be able to work out something for both sides that is fair in the beginning and avoid the BS? And most people are closer to the middle whether they know it or not. Most people share similar values and if they don't then they usually respect their neighboor's values as long as it doesn't bother them. It's the faces and the leaders of each side that gets everyone all worked up over stuff. At times I feel like Im watching a bunch of little kids in adult bodies arguing over dumb shizz. It's embarrassing really to watch a bunch of so called grown ups fight like little babies. I just smh and move on.
 
Revolution 9 said:
You say socialist like it's a bad thing. Does the common man think socialism = communism?
Is Obama turning American in China? Old USSR?

We'll never be like that, but are all their ideas wrong?
Here in Germany they are taxed more, but they have universal health care. I haven't found
one German that would give this up. I'm sure they are out there, but I ask my co-workers, and
friends questions about the german system. It's been described to me as "social capitalist". Higher taxes, but
everyone is covered. There are strong social systems in place to help people. "Kinder geld" is a popular one here
to help needy families.

When people state "Obama is a socialist" are they trying to say he is a communist? He wants to control everything?
Seems like people are fogetting liberalism wants to put more rights in your hands. Pro-choice, drugs, sexual, etc.

Universal Health Care does not = communism.
Click to expand...

I think the counter argument that many Americans would say is...

#1 The Constitution created over 200 years ago needs to stand for something. The Founding Fathers didn't believe that the Federal Government should have provided Universal Health Care (then again, how could they have foreseen 200 years into the future?) so therefore we shouldn't either.

#2 Where does it all end? Eventually, you Germans as well, will feel the weight of all these social programs and handouts. Eventually, Socialism, though brilliantly and charitably portrayed, will eventually come crashing in on itself. Future generations will demand more programs and more benefits thus creating greater financial demands which will ultimately lead to debt.

#3 Having the government provide something that churches/charities try to do will "take away" or "discourse" private charity and donations.

Those are the arguments I have heard and what I would guess many Germans, likeyou, would receive from most conservative minded Americans.
 
BluesRocker said:
How is it that the people in either party whether it be Democrat or Republican can't see the utter ridiculousness of the clams made be each side? Both have this extreme view of one another, and neither find that kind of strange, or odd that their opinions would be so different. They both just think the other is evil or stupid

I would say Obama is closer to center than left. Doesn't he seem to try and appease both sides?

I really I can't tell much of a difference between either side anyways. Of course they both sound a lot different but what they do seems a lot a like.

I find myself somewhere in the middle or more like a half breed.
I'm against abortion
I'm for national health care. I don't really see anything good coming from health care for profit. And it's the humane thing to do.
I'm for small goverment and low taxes. Infact, why can't we just do a flat tax? Im tired of only some pay taxes and some don't.
I don't like welfare for the rich or the poor, but I do think we need social security.
I think we should spend even more on education and improve it. Extend the public education system through college
Im for the free market but with regulations.
just to name a few

The point is that our country is a mix between both sides. Which is good I guess because it creates balance. I have always assumed that it is nature's way of creating a natural balance so that people would have to come to agreement that ends somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't it be easier though just to be a RATIONAL person and be able to work out something for both sides that is fair in the beginning and avoid the BS? And most people are closer to the middle whether they know it or not. Most people share similar values and if they don't then they usually respect their neighboor's values as long as it doesn't bother them. It's the faces and the leaders of each side that gets everyone all worked up over stuff. At times I feel like Im watching a bunch of little kids in adult bodies arguing over dumb shizz. It's embarrassing really to watch a bunch of so called grown ups fight like little babies. I just smh and move on.
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I love the bolded part. Especially when they make the same kind of claims (changing key words like religious bigot for racist, socialist for neocon).

To many stances for only two parties to encompass everything.

For me personally I am a conservative leaning idependent but I have stances that put me at odds with "conservatives". For example legalizing marijuana, pro-gay marriage and amnesty for illegals that are already here and have established roots and are not out breaking laws (aside from being here).
 
The Thriller said:
I think the counter argument that many Americans would say is...

#1 The Constitution created over 200 years ago needs to stand for something. The Founding Fathers didn't believe that the Federal Government should have provided Universal Health Care (then again, how could they have foreseen 200 years into the future?) so therefore we shouldn't either.

#2 Where does it all end? Eventually, you Germans as well, will feel the weight of all these social programs and handouts. Eventually, Socialism, though brilliantly and charitably portrayed, will eventually come crashing in on itself. Future generations will demand more programs and more benefits thus creating greater financial demands which will ultimately lead to debt.

#3 Having the government provide something that churches/charities try to do will "take away" or "discourse" private charity and donations.

Those are the arguments I have heard and what I would guess many Germans, likeyou, would receive from most conservative minded Americans.
Click to expand...

The problem with #2 above is that Germany is not socialist, it's more accurately described as 'corporatist.' Corporatism is based on social partnership between capital and labour interest groups as well as between the market economy and state regulation that is considered a compromise to regulate conflict between capital and labour by mandating them to engage in mutual consultations based that are mediated by the government. (Citing God of Wikipedia cause I'm too lazy to get a better definition, but you get the drift.) The state owns only about 2.9% of industrial production (if my numbers are correct) compared to about 2.3% in the US. Germany is not socialist and neither are other W. European countries, all have mixed economies, though some have greater state ownership of means of production than others. The myth W Europe is socialist is one of those inaccurate bits of convention wisdom that have gained prominence on the right.
 
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