Roy Moore justifications

[moevillini]

very good article here (it's long though)
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/12/the-weaponization-of-awkwardness/548291/
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/12/the-weaponization-of-awkwardness/548291/

I hadn't heard or read anything about the "Cat Person" essay this article references, but the gist of what follows is so very true. We've heard (or used) the cliché "Just like a woman, always changing her mind" so many times - and it's generally used in a disparaging way.

So by acquiescing (definition: to accept something reluctantly but without protest) to the man's advances, the woman "saves face" at the time of the event because in the moment, that is what seems the most important.

“Young women say yes to sex they don’t actually want to have all of the time. Why? Because we condition young women to feel guilty if they change their mind.”

That was the writer Ella Dawson, in her essay reacting to “Cat Person,” the New Yorker short story that went viral, and indeed that is still going viral, this week. Kristen Roupenian’s work of fiction resonated among denizens of the nonfictional world in part because of its sex scene: one that explores, in rich and wincing detail, the complications of consent. Margot, a 20-year-old college student, goes on a date with Robert, a man several years her senior; alternately enchanted by him and repulsed by him, hopeful about him and disappointed, she ultimately sleeps with him. Not because she fully wants to, in the end, but because, in the dull heat of the moment, acquiescing is easier—less dramatic, less disruptive, less awkward—than saying no....

Consent, concession, the blurred lines between the two: The work of fiction, and the analysis of it, are each in their own ways deeply true. And they struck a cultural nerve this week—Dawson’s essay, titled “Bad Sex, or the Sex We Don’t Want but Have Anyway,” went viral along with Roupenian’s story—because they highlight, together, something that is widely recognized but rarely talked about: the version of sex that is bad not in a criminal sense, but in an emotional one. The kind that can happen, as Dawson suggested, partly as a result of cultural forces that exert themselves on women in particular: the demand that they be accommodating. That they be pleasing. That they capitulate to the feelings of others, and maintain a kind of sunny status quo—both in the immediate moment of a given social situation, and more broadly: Wait for the raise to be offered. Put in that extra minute of effort with the eye makeup. Nod. Smile. Once you’ve consented, don’t make things weird by saying, out loud, that you’ve changed your mind. “Cat Person,” on top of everything else, is an exploration of awkwardness as a form of social coercion; the conversation it sparked, accordingly, in “Bad Sex” and Facebook posts and essays and tweet threads, has been a consideration of that kind of awkwardness as a condition—and a chronic one.

That these conversations would be occasioned by a work of fiction is both ironic and revealing: The world itself, the one that is all too real, has long provided its own stories of perilous awkwardness. As revelations of sexual harassment and assault have come to light in recent months, awkwardness and discomfort and embarrassment and, in general, Americans’ deeply ingrained impulse to avoid involvement in an “awkward moment when” have also shown their darker sides. Harvey Weinstein, on the tape recorded by the model Ambra Battilana Gutierrez as part of a New York Police Department sting operation, told her, “Don’t embarrass me in the hotel.” And: “Honey, don’t have a fight with me in the hallway.” And: “Please, you’re making a big scene here. Please.” So many of the other men accused of predation, it has now become painfully clear, have in their own ways used those soft but crushing social pressures as weapons, both in moments of abuse and beyond: Don’t be dramatic. Don’t make a scene. Please.

I think ALL women have been through this - perhaps not with actual sexual activity but even just with "making-out" - when you're with someone you feel rather ambivalent about, and it's just easier to go along with things than "make a scene" at the time.

Back in my younger days when I was dating, I had plenty of those AWKWARD moments where I finally told the guy that "No, in spite of those couple of times we were making out and you thought I was enjoying it, I really DON'T like you "that way" and I don't want to have "that kind" of relationship with you"

Guys, I'm sure most of you have been on the receiving end of that sort of awkward moment yourself.

It is so important to teach girls and young women that it is NOT their job to try to please other people, particularly not those with whom you're involved in casual relationships.

 

[Ron Mexico]

very good article here (it's long though)
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/12/the-weaponization-of-awkwardness/548291/

I hadn't heard or read anything about the "Cat Person" essay this article references, but the gist of what follows is so very true. We've heard (or used) the cliché "Just like a woman, always changing her mind" so many times - and it's generally used in a disparaging way.

So by acquiescing (definition: to accept something reluctantly but without protest) to the man's advances, the woman "saves face" at the time of the event because in the moment, that is what seems the most important.








I think ALL women have been through this - perhaps not with actual sexual activity but even just with "making-out" - when you're with someone you feel rather ambivalent about, and it's just easier to go along with things than "make a scene" at the time.

Back in my younger days when I was dating, I had plenty of those AWKWARD moments where I finally told the guy that "No, in spite of those couple of times we were making out and you thought I was enjoying it, I really DON'T like you "that way" and I don't want to have "that kind" of relationship with you"

Guys, I'm sure most of you have been on the receiving end of that sort of awkward moment yourself.

It is so important to teach girls and young women that it is NOT their job to try to please other people, particularly not those with whom you're involved in casual relationships.

I really enjoyed the Cat Person essay. It was pretty well written.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/12/11/cat-person

 

[Ron Mexico]

Just like people who are not guilty of murder have no need to be concerned, right? After all, innocents never get imprisoned or even accused.

Yes, I am not concerned about being sent to prison for Murder since I dont murder. Yes, there are a minuscule amount of people wrongfully convicted of crimes.

In the case of sexual abuse and sexual harassment the wrongfully convicted are in the very very very very very very very minority in comparison to the people who are not convicted that commit these awful things. The vast majority of women are sexually harassed and/or sexual abused it is a much bigger issue than wrongful convictions.

Not that I dont think we should continue to improve our judicial system to eliminate wrongful convictions and be better but its a lesser issue. Although the majority of wrongful convictions come because of racism in our system, so that is also something we need to work on.

 

[babe]

Link to the recent palo alto studies, pls.

And marijuana use amongst youth has been declining for a long time now from what I've read, I'll get a link for that if you want, but particularly in states where it has been legalized recreationally.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-is-down-in-colorado/?utm_term=.57f3e455bd44

RINOs, you say that like it's an insult. How lock-step should a party be? How narrow should a major political ideology for a nation of over 300 million people be? Is Republican purity really the way forward for that party? Can such purity be accomplished in a honest way, or does it require individuals to conform to something and to pretend to believe it and be 100% loyal, even though they sometimes have different views?

I think..... well, I should say..... according to the leading expert true "Republican" credentials.... lol.....

Let me be clear. I come from a contentious band of knowitalls who all have their own opinions, which further expect the deplorable wage slaves, the unwashed heathens and in general all trailer trash to listen respectfully.... and I'm the babe who endured all that crap with nobody ever listening to me. In that context, it is truly empowering to have liberals cowering at my muddled musings day in and day out.

Yes it is an "insult" to call a Republican a RINO because it means they campaign on Republican slogans and then do pretty much exactly the opposite of what they promised. I don't think very many dems exactly do that. Except I do think the dems crap on blacks and minorities pretty bad. Gotta get some kind of plan to actually help the disadvantaged, I mean.... other than keep them dependent on some form of welfare.

A modern Homestead Act giving them a home if they "prove up" by developing a sustainable business working outta their home..... I dunno..... selling pot or something. Any idea is worth trying.....

Here's one report, pure science sans the interpretive extrapolations:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4250161/

So here's my link to the Palo Alto (Stanford) research:

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana/what-are-marijuanas-long-term-effects-brain

For whatever it's worth, I wish to distance myself from Jeff Sessions' penchant for filling the jails with harmless potheads. Let'em outta jail and make'm find some J.O.B. if they can.

 

[Red]

Here's one report, pure science sans the interpretive extrapolations:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4250161/

So here's my link to the Palo Alto (Stanford) research:

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana/what-are-marijuanas-long-term-effects-brain

For whatever it's worth, I wish to distance myself from Jeff Sessions' penchant for filling the jails with harmless potheads. Let'em outta jail and make'm find some J.O.B. if they can.

Just a personal observation. It will be 52 years this 12/26, since I first lit up, and my mind is still operating just fine, with no cognitive impairment.....

 

[Stoked]

Just a personal observation. It will be 52 years this 12/26, since I first lit up, and my mind is still operating just fine, with no cognitive impairment.....

Debatable

 

[babe]

Debatable

I think Red demonstrates a high level of competence in reading and re-posting lengthy Politico articles and such, and is otherwise a fairly intelligent poster who can make me look like an imbecile sometimes......

with the pot research, it's some kind of statistical distribution of effects superimposed on what nature initially gifts us with. If Einstein was a pothead we might not have E=mc2 but, perhaps, E=mc3/THc.

 

[franklin]

Back in my younger days when I was dating, I had plenty of those AWKWARD moments where I finally told the guy that "No, in spite of those couple of times we were making out and you thought I was enjoying it, I really DON'T like you "that way" and I don't want to have "that kind" of relationship with you"

Guys, I'm sure most of you have been on the receiving end of that sort of awkward moment yourself.

I think the girls here aren't giving most guys as much credit as deserved. I've been in a few situations where either the girl changed her mind or I tried to take things too far. I could sense it and ended those interactions. I think what @Gameface said awhile back is true for most men - something along the lines that it's not pleasing if it's not reciprocated affection.

But the assholes ruin it for the rest of us and give this interpretation that men demand women please them. That's not true for most of us at all. I could easily argue the opposite.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think the girls here aren't giving most guys as much credit as deserved. I've been in a few situations where either the girl changed her mind or I tried to take things too far. I could sense it and ended those interactions. I think what @Gameface said awhile back is true for most men - something along the lines that it's not pleasing if it's not reciprocated affection.

But the assholes ruin it for the rest of us and give this interpretation that men demand women please them. That's not true for most of us at all. I could easily argue the opposite.

Good post.

BTW, i have been on the other (women) side of things. Where a female was too aggressive with me and i wasn't interested and she kept trying even after i told her no multiple times.
I was also basically raped by a women once as well.
#metoo

 

[franklin]

Good post.

BTW, i have been on the other (women) side of things. Where a female was too aggressive with me and i wasn't interested and she kept trying even after i told her no multiple times.
I was also basically raped by a women once as well.
#metoo

I've been there plenty of times. Once I had to throw a hot girl off of me when she persistently tried to give me a lap dance. She turned around and said "[franklin] if you weren't married I'd be ****ing your brains out right now". I had several persistent girlfriends who broke up with me because I wouldn't bang them and then they made fun of me to my friends for it.

It's a two way street.

 

[JazzGal]

Having girls hit on you is not exactly the same as being afraid for your life if you refuse someone.

 

[Stoked]

Having girls hit on you is not exactly the same as being afraid for your life if you refuse someone.

On average I would agree with you but this is a really broad brush. It is far bigger than anyone wants to admit IMO. No need to down play these cases due to gender swap. We can condemn them while still condemning what happens to virtually all women. If anything it gives some small, partial insight into what others experience.

I have also had women go way to far. Doesn't mean I am lessening others experiences by relating my own.