Rubio is not the answer going forward

[Jack Strop]

It's funny how similar the deals for Al Jefferson and Ricky Rubio were.

-taking back a large multi-year deal and sending back little/no salary
-Minnesota enjoys addition by subtraction
-Utah gets worse by adding a player that has a reputation for being a good player but has a number of catastrophic flaws

Can we just make it a point to not do a deal with the Timberwolves when they leave one of their stars on the curb for pickup?

Add that both deals were done with the intention of maintaining a winning team and convincing Utah's star player to stay.
I don't think either deal was necessarily bad.
1. Deron really liked the Jefferson deal. But the roster never really had a chance to come together. Jazz were likely playoff-bound at 31-23 until Deron & Sloan had their spat, Sloan quit and then Williams was traded. Imagine the very next season had Utah just brought in a SG (Williams, FA, Millsap, Jefferson and Hayward). Once Deron was traded, there was a good deal of roster mismanagement, bad drafting and poor coaching.
2. Rubio was brought in under the assumption Hayward was returning. This would be a vastly superior team with Gordon at SF. The inside would be more open for Gobert and Rubio would be dishing out assists to both, not trying to be a scorer.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Al Jefferson was a terrible acquisition and anyone that actually paid attention to Al Jefferson the player and the offense the Jazz ran (or any good offense for that matter) could see it was a very bad fit. Al Jefferson, Deron Williams, and Jerry Sloan would've never worked, and it didn't.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Add that both deals were done with the intention of maintaining a winning team and convincing Utah's star player to stay.
I don't think either deal was necessarily bad.
1. Deron really liked the Jefferson deal. But the roster never really had a chance to come together. Jazz were likely playoff-bound at 31-23 until Deron & Sloan had their spat, Sloan quit and then Williams was traded. Imagine the very next season had Utah just brought in a SG (Williams, FA, Millsap, Jefferson and Hayward). Once Deron was traded, there was a good deal of roster mismanagement, bad drafting and poor coaching.
2. Rubio was brought in under the assumption Hayward was returning. This would be a vastly superior team with Gordon at SF. The inside would be more open for Gobert and Rubio would be dishing out assists to both, not trying to be a scorer.

I don't think anyone assumed Hayward would be back (at least not at the time). The Jazz likely acquired Rubio IN THE HOPE THAT Hayward would sign. They felt they couldn't go in with a convincing pitch without a PG, and their methodology wasn't incorrect. Tough situation.

 

[akirac73]

Al Jefferson was a terrible acquisition and anyone that actually paid attention to Al Jefferson the player and the offense the Jazz ran (or any good offense for that matter) could see it was a very bad fit. Al Jefferson, Deron Williams, and Jerry Sloan would've never worked, and it didn't.

You can't say it would've NEVER worked, because it actually did for half a season...the Jazz started off that season 27-13 (first place in the division) with the Jefferson/D-Will/Sloan combo...then it fell apart once Sloan quit and D-will was traded.

 

[gomretat]

I don't think anyone assumed Hayward would be back (at least not at the time). The Jazz likely acquired Rubio IN THE HOPE THAT Hayward would sign. They felt they couldn't go in with a convincing pitch without a PG, and their methodology wasn't incorrect. Tough situation.

I would say it is clear that the Jazz assumed he was going to come back or they would have pursued other free agents.

 

[candrew]

You can't say it would've NEVER worked, because it actually did for half a season...the Jazz started off that season 27-13 (first place in the division) with the Jefferson/D-Will/Sloan combo...then it fell apart once Sloan quit and D-will was traded.

I think that is more a testament to Sloan than anything else. He took a team with major flaws and somehow made them competitive. The Jazz lost Boozer and Okur and replaced them with the all time killer of offensive flow - Al Jefferson. Jefferson was essentially benched by Sloan in some of the early season losses.

Then The Jazz lost 10 of 14, D-Will went rogue and then the roof caved in.

 

[NUMBERICA]

You can't say it would've NEVER worked, because it actually did for half a season...the Jazz started off that season 27-13 (first place in the division) with the Jefferson/D-Will/Sloan combo...then it fell apart once Sloan quit and D-will was traded.

It would never have worked. Al doesn't work in a real offense. He never has.

 

[Siro]

I would say it is clear that the Jazz assumed he was going to come back or they would have pursued other free agents.

No. They would've pursued others had they assumed he wouldn't sign. They couldn't sign a replacement if they didn't know whether he'll resign or not.

 

[yamers]

I think that is more a testament to Sloan than anything else. He took a team with major flaws and somehow made them competitive. The Jazz lost Boozer and Okur and replaced them with the all time killer of offensive flow - Al Jefferson. Jefferson was essentially benched by Sloan in some of the early season losses.

Then The Jazz lost 10 of 14, D-Will went rogue and then the roof caved in.

Sloan was an amazing coach. Boozer and dwill both went to piss after sloan. It was also sloan who told the jazz fo to go get gobert

 

[Jack Strop]

Sloan was an amazing coach. Boozer and dwill both went to piss after sloan. It was also sloan who told the jazz fo to go get gobert

Absolutely not true about Gobert. It was the Jazz' international scout who made Lindsey aware of Gobert. Rudy was brought in for a workout, which Sloan was at and THEN Jerry talked about Rudy's motor and raw skills.

As for Boozer and DWill...I'll admit Sloan's offense made it easier for them to become stars. It was built around the 1/4 P&R. The reason for DWill's demise was related to injuries. IIRC, he was playing with a bad wrist during Utah's losing streak up to his run-in with Sloan and then had a bevy of injuries after the trade. As for Boozer, his career has the normal bell-shaped curve one might expect. KOC got him on the way up after 2 years at Cleveland, he had a 2-yr peak in Utah (20-10 seasons), but his stats had already started to decline before he left. He then had a couple of decent years in Chicago before fading out of existence.

Sloan wasn't an amazing coach, IMO. He was very good. But he was often outcoached in the playoffs, evidenced by Utah's numerous post-season upsets. Of course, part of that is Malone and Stockton not elevating their games in the post-season. But Sloan, especially in the latter years, was slow to adjust to the modern game (he hated 3PTer's for years and didn't really believe players - particularly opponents - -would hit them with regularity), he had rigid substitution patterns, not exploiting or responding to mismatches or players with "hot hands." And he often did not adjust his offense or defense to his personnel. It took him years to stop funneling opposing players inside, despite him not having bulking centers to support that strategy after the Eaton and Ostertag eras. He was also a cantankerous old goat who was a horrible communicator. It was "sit down, shut up." Many players were left wondering why they were benched after playing well in a previous game. A few players have commented on it. And he would stay with bad vets for months before letting a good, young player who hadn't paid his dues play. Case in point was DWill; took the word "fire" from Larry H. before Sloan made DWill the starter.


While I recognize Sloan had a great record, a big part of that was longevity and having Stockton and Malone. Not sure where I would rank him. Likely Top-10, but not top-5.