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Rudy Gobert selected to third team All-NBA

David Ginola 14 said:
I don't understand why we have to say that we hate Gobert if we don't want to give him the max contract, why? why ? Over 230 million are an absurdity for the value of Gobert, which is limited offensively and which in some series of Po you find it hard to keep in the field. To understand each other, I would not give the max contract to Walker or Thompson either ... there are few max contract players, to Lbj, Curry, Kd, Harden, Giannis, Leonard ... already with Lillard who is 29 years old I would think about it .. Not wanting to give the max to Gobert is not to hate him, it is to love the Jazz ..
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No it is just stupidity run wild.

And you wouldn’t give Klay Thompson a max. Lol
 
David Ginola 14 said:
I don't understand why we have to say that we hate Gobert if we don't want to give him the max contract, why? why ? Over 230 million are an absurdity for the value of Gobert, which is limited offensively and which in some series of Po you find it hard to keep in the field. To understand each other, I would not give the max contract to Walker or Thompson either ... there are few max contract players, to Lbj, Curry, Kd, Harden, Giannis, Leonard ... already with Lillard who is 29 years old I would think about it .. Not wanting to give the max to Gobert is not to hate him, it is to love the Jazz ..
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When will the Jazz ever sign LBJ, Curry, Durant, Harden, Giannis, or Leonard? You are saying you wouldn’t want the Jazz to give the super-max to anyone.
 
Jazz4ever said:
Outside of Davis everyone else offered the supermax took it. This year Lillard, Walker, and Gobert are eligible for it and don't see any of them passing it up.
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Kawhi.

The money itself doesn't mean anything to them, it's just such an absurd amount. It's so much money that all it is is a matter of pride, that if the hometown team doesn't offer it, then they probably go shopping on principle. I'm not a fan. The players should just get a bigger overall slice of the pie, things like this cripple teams.
 
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Douchebag K said:
No it is just stupidity run wild.

And you wouldn’t give Klay Thompson a max. Lol
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with Thompson as max contract player I don't think you won, Klay is strong, but it's the 3/4 best player on his team ... Klay at 50 million, the others on the roster then who are they?

pity about lol, one tries to argue, one can agree or not, but lol makes you understand your desire to discuss ..
 
David Ginola 14 said:
I don't understand why we have to say that we hate Gobert if we don't want to give him the max contract, why? why ? Over 230 million are an absurdity for the value of Gobert, which is limited offensively and which in some series of Po you find it hard to keep in the field. To understand each other, I would not give the max contract to Walker or Thompson either ... there are few max contract players, to Lbj, Curry, Kd, Harden, Giannis, Leonard ... already with Lillard who is 29 years old I would think about it .. Not wanting to give the max to Gobert is not to hate him, it is to love the Jazz ..
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Fair enough, say goodbye to him then, or trade him early for assets.
 
60 Mill is an insane and absurd amount of money for one season. Insurd? Absane maybe? I can't see paying that for anyone, ever. Unbelievable.
 
LogGrad98 said:
60 Mill is an insane and absurd amount of money for one season. Insurd? Absane maybe? I can't see paying that for anyone, ever. Unbelievable.
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Agreed and if you are going to pay that then it should only be for players the level of LeBron, Steph, kahwi, KD types while in their primes and at the top of their game.

That's the other part of the equation. Not only are you playing 60 million to Rudy who isn't quite on the level of a top 5 guy but you are paying it to him when he is 33 and not at the top of his game

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What’s the alternative?

And I’m serious, do you start trying to trade him? Does any team put half as much value on him as we do? Let him walk? Insult him with a lower offer?

We talked all year about how under appreciated he is, how he is actually a top 10 player in terms of two way impact. How he makes our whole offense go. Even being under appreciated by the public, he got himself eligible for a Supermax contract. One of the best defensive players in history and a completely unselfish, yet crucially important offensive player.

Yes the playoffs are a different story, but would you really complain if Gobert was anchoring 60 win teams for the length of his contract?


Let’s look at it this way. We are looking to use our cap space this year. Next year if we sign Gobert it wouldn’t kick in until the next year. At that point we give Mitchell a max rookie extension. Is there any chance we don’t give Mitchell that contract? No. Will DL/Gail/etc. gut a really good and beloved team for financial reasons? No. So we roll with it. None of the dudes mentioned (LeBron, Durant, Curry, etc) will give us the option of spending the Supermax on someone who is ‘worth it’ Gobert is who we have, so let’s hope we are all right about him.

Mitchell and Gobert will be eating up massive amount of space, that is the future of the Jazz. So you hope for more Ingles’, Royce’s, Caroll’s, etc. you draft some high upside dudes and really hope they pan out, and above all: you make some big moves right now and go for broke while you still have the flexibility.


The league is in upheaval, a dynasty may be winding down, a window could open. It’s a big two years.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
What’s the alternative?

And I’m serious, do you start trying to trade him? Does any team put half as much value on him as we do? Let him walk? Insult him with a lower offer?

We talked all year about how under appreciated he is, how he is actually a top 10 player in terms of two way impact. How he makes our whole offense go. Even being under appreciated by the public, he got himself eligible for a Supermax contract. One of the best defensive players in history and a completely unselfish, yet crucially important offensive player.

Yes the playoffs are a different story, but would you really complain if Gobert was anchoring 60 win teams for the length of his contract?


Let’s look at it this way. We are looking to use our cap space this year. Next year if we sign Gobert it wouldn’t kick in until the next year. At that point we give Mitchell a max rookie extension. Is there any chance we don’t give Mitchell that contract? No. Will DL/Gail/etc. gut a really good and beloved team for financial reasons? No. So we roll with it. None of the dudes mentioned (LeBron, Durant, Curry, etc) will give us the option of spending the Supermax on someone who is ‘worth it’ Gobert is who we have, so let’s hope we are all right about him.

Mitchell and Gobert will be eating up massive amount of space, that is the future of the Jazz. So you hope for more Ingles’, Royce’s, Caroll’s, etc. you draft some high upside dudes and really hope they pan out, and above all: you make some big moves right now and go for broke while you still have the flexibility.


The league is in upheaval, a dynasty may be winding down, a window could open. It’s a big two years.
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There is also some flexibility in the supermax. Could do a flat number or even have some declines. I doubt we’d give full supermax and can still offer something way more than he’d get on the open market... so there is a compromise in there and I think Rudy would understand and meet us in the middle.

I also don’t buy the “he can’t play in the playoffs” in the GS series a couple years ago he was hurt... Houston he is asked to do too much and in both series he and the defense weren’t the problem.

Imma ride or die with Rudy and DM.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
What’s the alternative?

And I’m serious, do you start trying to trade him? Does any team put half as much value on him as we do? Let him walk? Insult him with a lower offer?
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I don't know but everything should be considered (including paying the man).

Just have to really really be sure. Again, 60 million and 800 thousand dollars a season for a 33 year old. And I have heard it said that guys like him body wise age faster.


And again, I would be concerned about paying Steph, KD, kahwi, LeBron 60 million when they are 33 years old. This ain't a Rudy thing

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Bawse Dawg said:
Exactly, you don't get to be picky about the two stars you drafted late in the draft a few years apart. There are no do-overs. These are our guys.


And my playoff comment didn't mean anything regarding Rudy, just that the playoffs are a completely different beast in general.
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I didn't take it that way... just know that narrative has been going around... more nationally than anything. I'm watching the playoffs and seeing Gasol and Lopez playing 30 minutes a night, Looney for GSW, Leonard/Kanter for the Blazers... like the death of the big man has been a little premature and over-sold.

If we had real spacing around Rudy teams would have to really pick their poison and Rudy would dominate. We've started him with two non-shooters (I mean Ricky kind of makes shots sometimes but dudes play way off him). You have to build with DM and Rudy in mind and fit around them... we have not done a great job of that.

Plus...Rudy gets better every year. Per36 this year he increased his pts by +3, assists by .6 (50% increase), rebounds by 2.6, FG % by 5%... blocks the same turnover slightly down. All while working with a young superstar and a few clunky fits. Just watch Rudy some nights... he sprints to set 2-3 picks on a play and then dives to the rim... sprints back on defense, shows on the perimeter then dives down to get the offensive rebound... will contest the shot then get the board... do we understand how hard that is and how much effort it requires?

I understand ppg twitter doesn't get his worth... we should though.
 
fishonjazz said:
I don't know but everything should be considered (including paying the man).

Just have to really really be sure. Again, 60 million and 800 thousand dollars a season for a 33 year old. And I have heard it said that guys like him body wise age faster.


And again, I would be concerned about paying Steph, KD, kahwi, LeBron 60 million when they are 33 years old. This ain't a Rudy thing

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I agree and there is some flexibility there... but sometimes you pay the vet tax to open up your window. Some big guys age well... Rudy doesn't carry any extra weight so he could be fine.
 
5 year supermax would require Rudy to get to free agency before making his decision. I think we would address this after next season since he'd be eligible. At that point it can only be 4 additional years. The 4 year extension with max raises would pay him $56M at age 32. But it is an extension and players generally give a little for that type of extension. So you could have it be flat or even decline by 8% or add in unlikely bonuses to get to the raise amounts. So instead of 5 years 262M it could end up being like 4 years and $200M with only 175M-180M guaranteed. Much more palatable. I'd only offer the supermax in an extension scenario and want a little bit of give there. It's a reasonable ask and it is more than he'd get on the open market and insulates him from injury risk.
 
The supermax was designed to help small market teams retain players, i cant believe they didnt do the math on how itll absolutely **** the salary cap up for a small market team.

Same situation in portland with dame.
 
fishonjazz said:
I don't know but everything should be considered (including paying the man).

Just have to really really be sure. Again, 60 million and 800 thousand dollars a season for a 33 year old. And I have heard it said that guys like him body wise age faster.


And again, I would be concerned about paying Steph, KD, kahwi, LeBron 60 million when they are 33 years old. This ain't a Rudy thing

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Unless there is some other move that keeps a top 10 player in a Jazz uniform I'm really not sure there is much to discuss. None of the alternatives really make sense. 33 isn't 40, Rudy's game will probably age quite well.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Unless there is some other move that keeps a top 10 player in a Jazz uniform I'm really not sure there is much to discuss. None of the alternatives really make sense. 33 isn't 40, Rudy's game will probably age quite well.
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Like I said in my post. It ain't about Rudy.
It's just that I think paying guys on the downside of their careers 60 million a season might be a poor strategy no matter who the player is.

I'm totally willing to listen to some examples of when that strategy has worked out though
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fishonjazz said:
Like I said in my post. It ain't about Rudy.
It's just that I think paying guys on the downside of their careers 60 million a season might be a poor strategy no matter who the player is.

I'm totally willing to listen to some examples of when that strategy has worked out though
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The supermax hasn't existed long enough for someone to get $60 million annually yet. Why exactly are you so hung up on the last year of the deal, where players hardly ever live up to the value? The 6 seasons before that count too. We have no idea what the league, Jazz, or salary cap will look like in Rudy's age 33 season, so I'm not super worried about it. My priority is keeping the asset.
 
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