Rumor: Gobert wants Jazz to decide between him or Mitchell

[Handlogten's Heros]

Jake Fisher in his podcast "Please Don't Aggregate This" says the hierarchy in Utah is basically Ryan, then Ainge, then Donovan's people, then Quin/JZ.

The way he said that the Ainge deal came down makes sense... basically him and Ryan are buddies and he was asking him stuff all the time so Ainge is like you need to bring me on in some sort of capacity if we are doing this all the time... So Ryan is like "here's the keys".

Basically we are screwed... lets all just hope Donovan demands out. That's the only way we are saved.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Honestly don’t think so, but I’m just guessing

I think the only way to salvage this iteration of the Jazz would be to dump contracts and sign a major free agent. This is what the Warriors did when they were a middling playoff team. They dumped Richard Jefferson, Andres Biedrins, and Brandon Rush on the Jazz in order to sign Andre Iguodala. That made them contenders. All it cost them was a single FRP. Jazz's contracts are longer though, unfortunately.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

This doesn't tell the full story, but it's still interesting. There is one player who sticks out on average defensive speed.

Players Speed & Distance | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring speed and distance information for each player in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

When you look at the whole league, it shows how slow our defenders are. However, speed is only one component. There are so many "basketball defense 101" rules they don't follow. They don't rotate, they defend to let their man go either direction, and when they do overplay a direction, they often open up too much and give the lane. They also don't anticipate or fight over screens. Taking charges is also a rare occurrence.

Watching the games last night you see the difference between the way the Jazz play, and the way the Suns and Miami play, on both ends, but especially on defense.

Dallas came back against the Suns a bit, but the Suns also stopped running their off screen motion that was killing the Mavs. The speed at which they came off screens was notable.

The lack of defense has been such an issue for a number of years in the playoffs, which is all that matters.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I think the only way to salvage this iteration of the Jazz would be to dump contracts and sign a major free agent. This is what the Warriors did when they were a middling playoff team. They dumped Richard Jefferson, Andres Biedrins, and Brandon Rush on the Jazz in order to sign Andre Iguodala. That made them contenders. All it cost them was a single FRP. Jazz's contracts are longer though, unfortunately.

I don’t want to salvage anything from this team, and when I say that, I mean I don’t want Mitchell back. It’s not going to work with Mitchell

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think the only way to salvage this iteration of the Jazz would be to dump contracts and sign a major free agent. This is what the Warriors did when they were a middling playoff team. They dumped Richard Jefferson, Andres Biedrins, and Brandon Rush on the Jazz in order to sign Andre Iguodala. That made them contenders. All it cost them was a single FRP. Jazz's contracts are longer though, unfortunately.

that ain't happening boss... for two reasons... 1- Zach ain't picking us 2- to move the amount of salary we'd need to find different homes for like 4 players without salary coming back. That's gonna cost assets... its a huge "no way" from me.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don’t want to salvage anything from this team, and when I say that, I mean I don’t want Mitchell back. It’s not going to work with Mitchell

Salvage is the right word... you trade everything you can and salvage draft picks and maybe our dignity.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I don’t want to salvage anything from this team, and when I say that, I mean I don’t want Mitchell back. It’s not going to work with Mitchell

If you could dump some salary and score the right free agents, I'd be ok with Mitchell, but the chances of that happening are slim with the teams cap situation. They need to trade or release O'Neale, Azubuike, Conley and Gay. Hassan won't be back either. Try to score from the group of Bagley, Warren, Gary Harris, Covington, Campazzo, Oladipo, K Anderson, T. Prince and Baynes. Consider bringing back Ingles on a minimum vet contract too.

Upgrades on D with decent shooting for the most part. I'd like to see a new system too with more lower paint screens and cuts. The current offense works until it doesn't. Need a variety like what the Suns are doing. Having a center that could score would be helpful.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

What am I looking at?

If you click on the link and then scroll all the way to the right there is a column for the average defensive speed of each player on our team during the playoffs. Donovan Mitchell had by far the slowest defensive speed on our team. It's not a perfect stat, but supports the idea that Mitchell wasn't working as hard on defense as the rest of the team.

 

[mongoose01]

If you click on the link and then scroll all the way to the right there is a column for the average defensive speed of each player on our team during the playoffs. Donovan Mitchell had by far the slowest defensive speed on our team. It's not a perfect stat, but supports the idea that Mitchell wasn't working as hard on defense as the rest of the team.

He’s right there next to a couple forty year olds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NUMBERICA]

Do the Jazz have the ability to open up cap space if they dump Conley, Bogdanovic and Rudy Gay, even if they have to attach picks to do it? The target would need to be someone significant like Zach Lavine.

Almost certainly no. But what’s certainly certain is that under no circumstance should they burn more picks to float this obviously busted pairing.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Do the Jazz have the ability to open up cap space if they dump Conley, Bogdanovic and Rudy Gay, even if they have to attach picks to do it? The target would need to be someone significant like Zach Lavine.

Conservatively that would put us at 107M with the cap at 112M. Long way to go before even getting cap space for a max contract. Zero chance.

 

[Jingled]

Jake Fisher in his podcast "Please Don't Aggregate This" says the hierarchy in Utah is basically Ryan, then Ainge, then Donovan's people, then Quin/JZ.

The way he said that the Ainge deal came down makes sense... basically him and Ryan are buddies and he was asking him stuff all the time so Ainge is like you need to bring me on in some sort of capacity if we are doing this all the time... So Ryan is like "here's the keys".

Basically we are screwed... lets all just hope Donovan demands out. That's the only way we are saved.

If I was Zanik and Quin, I'd get the hell out of here. What a **** show.

 

[oneye]

The thing that kinda got me was he said Donovan will be here a year "at the most"... so what we roll into the season and hope he makes it past the trade deadline. I'm almost rooting for the worst case scenario where we do this damn re-tool and then Ryan has to trade Donovan right before the trade deadline and then the AS game comes right after... maximum egg on his face.

Its kinda clear to me the way Tim talks that we've already been in damage control with Donovan and trying to make him happy and that it isn't working all that well.

I think it’s been pretty clear for a while Donovan doesn’t like Utah. He doesn’t like being here, he doesn’t like the fans here anymore to be quite blunt, and you’re just not going to change his mind. I think he cares about his “Spida” brand much more than he cares about winning, culture, teammates, or being a good franchise representative. He hasn’t said a positive thing about, or repped Utah in any way shape or form for a couple years now. And tbh, idk what more you can do to cater to him. He’s been given essentially anything he wants. Just rip off the band aid and train the douche.

 

[oneye]

Jake Fisher in his podcast "Please Don't Aggregate This" says the hierarchy in Utah is basically Ryan, then Ainge, then Donovan's people, then Quin/JZ.

The way he said that the Ainge deal came down makes sense... basically him and Ryan are buddies and he was asking him stuff all the time so Ainge is like you need to bring me on in some sort of capacity if we are doing this all the time... So Ryan is like "here's the keys".

Basically we are screwed... lets all just hope Donovan demands out. That's the only way we are saved.

We are Utah, but Donovan Mitchell is not the guy to allow you to hold your franchise hostage, and they’ve allowed him to do it unfortunately. I hope Ainge does whatever he wants.

 

[oneye]

If you click on the link and then scroll all the way to the right there is a column for the average defensive speed of each player on our team during the playoffs. Donovan Mitchell had by far the slowest defensive speed on our team. It's not a perfect stat, but supports the idea that Mitchell wasn't working as hard on defense as the rest of the team.

Something I do wonder. Donovan explosiveness is not exactly what it used to be. I’m not sure if it’s him pacing himself from injury, or if the ankle injury last year did permanent damage and Elliot was right.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think it’s been pretty clear for a while Donovan doesn’t like Utah. He doesn’t like being here, he doesn’t like the fans here anymore to be quite blunt, and you’re just not going to change his mind. I think he cares about his “Spida” brand much more than he cares about winning, culture, teammates, or being a good franchise representative. He hasn’t said a positive thing about, or repped Utah in any way shape or form for a couple years now. And tbh, idk what more you can do to cater to him. He’s been given essentially anything he wants. Just rip off the band aid and train the douche.

To be fair ever since LBJ came on the scene, and to a lesser extent when the money entered the range of stupid, any sense of team loyalty has pretty much gone out the window. The absolute farce that was "The Decision" and how that played out set a new tone for the NBA in general, and showed all players that all that matters is their personal brand, and that they can force themselves wherever they want to go. The heyday of the 70's to the 90's where team pride and team loyalty were actually things that mattered are long gone in the modern NBA. There are small pockets of it, but usually only in cities where they have had recent success and aspirations to win more rings, such as with Golden State, and I believe Phoenix has built a decent culture of pride in the city and team, but that is the exception, not the norm. So Mitchell is just a product of the modern NBA along with every other borderline star, he wants to get his, as he sees his peers getting theirs. It isn't out of place and it isn't surprising in the least.

Actually the surprising thing is Rudy proclaiming that this is his NBA home and he wants to bring a championship here. And Joe's loyalty, which was rewarded with a ****** salary dump that actually won't save us much in the long run. Those are the outliers.

I am not saying it is just fine that this is Mitchell's approach, just that it isn't out of the ordinary and fits in exactly with the times. The days of any real pride in, or loyalty to, the team or city are long long gone.

 

[LoPo]

I think it’s been pretty clear for a while Donovan doesn’t like Utah. He doesn’t like being here, he doesn’t like the fans here anymore to be quite blunt, and you’re just not going to change his mind. I think he cares about his “Spida” brand much more than he cares about winning, culture, teammates, or being a good franchise representative. He hasn’t said a positive thing about, or repped Utah in any way shape or form for a couple years now. And tbh, idk what more you can do to cater to him. He’s been given essentially anything he wants. Just rip off the band aid and train the douche.

There is just so much to unpack here it's just not even worth addressing. So many lies.

 

[That1UtahFan]

To be fair ever since LBJ came on the scene, and to a lesser extent when the money entered the range of stupid, any sense of team loyalty has pretty much gone out the window. The absolute farce that was "The Decision" and how that played out set a new tone for the NBA in general, and showed all players that all that matters is their personal brand, and that they can force themselves wherever they want to go. The heyday of the 70's to the 90's where team pride and team loyalty were actually things that mattered are long gone in the modern NBA. There are small pockets of it, but usually only in cities where they have had recent success and aspirations to win more rings, such as with Golden State, and I believe Phoenix has built a decent culture of pride in the city and team, but that is the exception, not the norm. So Mitchell is just a product of the modern NBA along with every other borderline star, he wants to get his, as he sees his peers getting theirs. It isn't out of place and it isn't surprising in the least.

Actually the surprising thing is Rudy proclaiming that this is his NBA home and he wants to bring a championship here. And Joe's loyalty, which was rewarded with a ****** salary dump that actually won't save us much in the long run. Those are the outliers.

I am not saying it is just fine that this is Mitchell's approach, just that it isn't out of the ordinary and fits in exactly with the times. The days of any real pride in, or loyalty to, the team or city are long long gone.

This. NBA players are paid mercenaries. Teams aren't required to have loyalty to players and can be moved at any point. I wouldn't expect players to have loyalty to the teams. They are paid to do a job on the court. Nothing more, nothing less. If you happen to get a player that buys into loyalty then it's just a bonus. But like you said it's a bygone era where loyalty was kind of the expectation now not so much. The sooner people understand this the better.

 

[infection]

And Joe's loyalty, which was rewarded with a ****** salary dump that actually will cost us way more money than we saved as soon as next season.

FIFY.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

FIFY.

Forgot to add that it murdered what was left of any semblance of a functional locker room… when your locker room is already shaky as hell you may want to consider the non basketball repercussions of trading the one steady guy that everyone seems to get along with… even though he may or may not be smashing team employees on the low.