Added to Calendar: 07-27-20

Game Thread (Scrimmage) Jazz @ Nets

Catchall

Well-Known Member
2019 Prediction Contest Winner
I think Brantley is the type of big athletic body we need on defense. He moves well enough to have an impact there. If he is just an average three point shooter the post up and ball handling stuff will make him a solid offensive player too. In those lineups where he needs to create I think he will struggle... as a tertiary guy I think it’s helpful. He’s just really intriguing.
I think he can hit 35% or 36% of his 3s. He raised his season average with the Stars from 30% to 33% over the last 10 games. So he had to shoot 36% or 37%, at a minimum, to do that.
 

Catchall

Well-Known Member
2019 Prediction Contest Winner
Tucker is like Donovan Mitchell minus the talent. You can tell he dominated the gleague based on his athletic ability. I like his potential as a 3 and D guard, but he has to learn to score on limited opportunity, something that doesn't seem to be in his wheelhouse currently.
Sounds like Ben McLemore.
 

Catchall

Well-Known Member
2019 Prediction Contest Winner
He handled the ball a ton out front and made two solid defensive plays. If left open he can hit enough threes... if they close hard he can handle and drive. Even if he is mostly comfortable dribbling into a post up that has some value. He moved Justin Anderson ( a very thick wing) like he wasn’t there and drew a foul.

Other than cool dunks and big muscles Tucker really hasn’t impressed me at all.
I really liked Brantley's poke-away steal while he was back-pedaling on defense. That's really hard to do. That was a big play.
 

cowhide

Well-Known Member
I thought the g league guys did well overall. I am in agreement about Tucker. He is an undersized two who needs to improve his BB IQ which isn't always easy to do for some players. I thought Goss and Wright played well and they have certainly improved since the beginning of the year. Oni was rushing his shot and it was a little flat but he was in the right position most of the time. I liked how he plays defense. I think he can develop into a NBA rotation player. Brantley has an old school type of game which may or may not work in today's NBA. i think he should definitely get minutes at the 4 with Bogie being out. He needs to develop his 3pt shooting and his mid range game.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
I think he can hit 35% or 36% of his 3s. He raised his season average with the Stars from 30% to 33% over the last 10 games. So he had to shoot 36% or 37%, at a minimum, to do that.
If he can do that he will be a starter in the league. Has enough ball handling and size to be really good if the shot comes along.

I know the dribble into post up is not super sexy but its one of the things Giannis has done that makes him unstoppable. You cut off the drive and he bodies you out of the way and goes over/through you. Not saying Brantley will be that level of good at it, but it is a useful tool.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
I really liked Brantley's poke-away steal while he was back-pedaling on defense. That's really hard to do. That was a big play.
Its great because you get a turnover but never sacrificed defensive positioning. He moves his feet quite well. Was impressed in the preseason when he stood Giannis up a couple times on drives.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Brantley is similar in size to Draymond Green... I don't think he has the instincts that Green does (on offense or defense) but he has more upside as a shooter. Poor man's Draymond is my super hot take for Brantley.
 

MeloTheJazzKiller

Well-Known Member
I am not one to pat myself on the back, but I'll do it anyway.

When you Jazz drafted Justin Write-Foreman, I told you it was a fantastic pick. I told you Justin Wright-Foreman can play. Well, last night what did he do? Simply scored the final 27 points of the game. I told you, he has a hot hand. He can make any shot on the court, he is a scoring machine.

I told you.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Yall know I love Niang, but 20 minutes is too much. Mudiay isn't super useful if he is alongside JC and one of DM or Conley. There are rotation minutes available and if we see Bradley at the 4 again imma lose my ****. Put Jarrell or Miye or Juwan out there... we need to see if they have promise. Not that we should cut any of them, but for long term planning. If they look like rotation players then you can sign players at other positions with the plan that they'd soak up some minutes at 3/4.

I think when Brantley is the 4th or 5th person a defense is worried about he can do some things.

One thing that has irked me is that we seem to have a "its this guys turn" mentality with playing time. Or this guys is a max player so he needs to start. Or we drafted this guy so we need to stick with him even if the upside is Meh City.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
I am not one to pat myself on the back, but I'll do it anyway.

When you Jazz drafted Justin Write-Foreman, I told you it was a fantastic pick. I told you Justin Wright-Foreman can play. Well, last night what did he do? Simply scored the final 27 points of the game. I told you, he has a hot hand. He can make any shot on the court, he is a scoring machine.

I told you.
What happens when he deep dicks Melo in the Western Conference Finals? Where will your allegiances be?
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Yall know I love Niang, but 20 minutes is too much. Mudiay isn't super useful if he is alongside JC and one of DM or Conley. There are rotation minutes available and if we see Bradley at the 4 again imma lose my ****. Put Jarrell or Miye or Juwan out there... we need to see if they have promise. Not that we should cut any of them, but for long term planning. If they look like rotation players then you can sign players at other positions with the plan that they'd soak up some minutes at 3/4.

I think when Brantley is the 4th or 5th person a defense is worried about he can do some things.

One thing that has irked me is that we seem to have a "its this guys turn" mentality with playing time. Or this guys is a max player so he needs to start. Or we drafted this guy so we need to stick with him even if the upside is Meh City.
If Bradley is playing the 4 over those guys that should tell you maybe those guys just aren't ready.
 

MeloTheJazzKiller

Well-Known Member
What happens when he deep dicks Melo in the Western Conference Finals? Where will your allegiances be?
You don't seem to understand Carmelo Anthony. Melo is top five greatest American athletes that ever lived. Serena Williams, Sugar Ray Robinson, Jordan, Michael Phelps, Melo. Yes, Justin Wright-Foreman will one day be in that esteemed company, but that is three or four years away. Right now my allegiance is to Melo The Jazz Killer.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
If Bradley is playing the 4 over those guys that should tell you maybe those guys just aren't ready.
I hate this argument and logic. Coaches don't always get it right. Its the same logic as the guy that drops in the draft or gets waived... "well if he drops in the draft that should tell you he isn't good" "if he gets waived then it means the other guys are better".
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
I hate this argument and logic. Coaches don't always get it right. Its the same logic as the guy that drops in the draft or gets waived... "well if he drops in the draft that should tell you he isn't good" "if he gets waived then it means the other guys are better".
It's not the same logic.

Drafting is a huge future value based decision. Deciding who is ready now is different. If Quin, a super smart coach, is deciding to play Bradley at PF that should tell you a lot about how the other guys are showing up in practice.

I mean, I've been a Morgan guy for a while now, but if Snyder is playing Bradley at PF, that says a lot. It doesnt mean a year from now, or next season, Brantley/Morgan might be better, but I have a hard time believing Snyder is playing Bradley at PF just because "it's his turn".
 
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Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
It's not the same logic.

Drafting is a huge future value based decision. Deciding who is ready now is different. If Quin, a super smart coach, is deciding to play Bradley at PF that should tell you a lot about how the other guys are showing up in practice.

I mean, I've been a Morgan guy for a while now, but if Snyder is playing Bradley at PF, that says a lot. It doesnt mean a year from now, or next season, Brantley/Morgan might be better, but I have a hard time believing Snyder is playing Bradley at PF just because "it's his turn".
You have a point on the draft pick thing... but I've heard people say it. It is a very speculative decision.

I think coaches go for dudes that can be predictable or safe. There are instances where we have made rotation decisions based on tenure or status. The Mike Conley bench non-bench debacle is an example of when Quin made a decision that is better for the team overall but was over ruled by the front office. Mike starting is now the right choice because of no Bojan, but if Bojan were healthy Mike off the bench is the best option.

I digress... I think Brantley brings some chaos/unpredictability coaches may not love it but it can be helpful. I think the TB thing is honestly to see what kind of two big lineups we can try and to get Ed some run in the pre-season. Ed has been a good soldier and is sacrificing family time to be there... may not be able to get time. Putting TB in the corner on offense is a completely non-sensical decision. He can't shoot and if he isn't near the basket he can't offensive rebound. He's a space eater on defense but most nights is a non-factor at the rim.

I always go back to the David Lee and Draymond Green swap in rotation. Steve Kerr ( a smart coach) started Lee until he got hurt... then he puts Draymond with the starters and the rest is history. I believe he even said he discovered it on accident.

Christian Wood was Detroits best player but didn't start or get starters minutes until injuries/trades necessitated it. They were starting Thon, Tony Snell, Sekou...

Coaches can get this stuff wrong for a variety of reasons.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
A
You have a point on the draft pick thing... but I've heard people say it. It is a very speculative decision.

I think coaches go for dudes that can be predictable or safe. There are instances where we have made rotation decisions based on tenure or status. The Mike Conley bench non-bench debacle is an example of when Quin made a decision that is better for the team overall but was over ruled by the front office. Mike starting is now the right choice because of no Bojan, but if Bojan were healthy Mike off the bench is the best option.

I digress... I think Brantley brings some chaos/unpredictability coaches may not love it but it can be helpful. I think the TB thing is honestly to see what kind of two big lineups we can try and to get Ed some run in the pre-season. Ed has been a good soldier and is sacrificing family time to be there... may not be able to get time. Putting TB in the corner on offense is a completely non-sensical decision. He can't shoot and if he isn't near the basket he can't offensive rebound. He's a space eater on defense but most nights is a non-factor at the rim.

I always go back to the David Lee and Draymond Green swap in rotation. Steve Kerr ( a smart coach) started Lee until he got hurt... then he puts Draymond with the starters and the rest is history. I believe he even said he discovered it on accident.

Christian Wood was Detroits best player but didn't start or get starters minutes until injuries/trades necessitated it. They were starting Thon, Tony Snell, Sekou...

Coaches can get this stuff wrong for a variety of reasons.
Who is to say they are wrong if their decision is for win now purposes? You don't know how those guys looked atm. You just know what it ended up being.
And this isn't a Dray situation. These are guys who aren't even getting chances atm. That should tell us something, especially when Tony usually gets beaten.
 

Jazzmix

Well-Known Member
You have a point on the draft pick thing... but I've heard people say it. It is a very speculative decision.

I think coaches go for dudes that can be predictable or safe. There are instances where we have made rotation decisions based on tenure or status. The Mike Conley bench non-bench debacle is an example of when Quin made a decision that is better for the team overall but was over ruled by the front office. Mike starting is now the right choice because of no Bojan, but if Bojan were healthy Mike off the bench is the best option.

I digress... I think Brantley brings some chaos/unpredictability coaches may not love it but it can be helpful. I think the TB thing is honestly to see what kind of two big lineups we can try and to get Ed some run in the pre-season. Ed has been a good soldier and is sacrificing family time to be there... may not be able to get time. Putting TB in the corner on offense is a completely non-sensical decision. He can't shoot and if he isn't near the basket he can't offensive rebound. He's a space eater on defense but most nights is a non-factor at the rim.

I always go back to the David Lee and Draymond Green swap in rotation. Steve Kerr ( a smart coach) started Lee until he got hurt... then he puts Draymond with the starters and the rest is history. I believe he even said he discovered it on accident.

Christian Wood was Detroits best player but didn't start or get starters minutes until injuries/trades necessitated it. They were starting Thon, Tony Snell, Sekou...

Coaches can get this stuff wrong for a variety of reasons.
I am afraid that Cy may be right here. After all Quin gave a chance to Bradley and even Morgan in some moments. Brantley also got much less time in those scrimmages than Tucker or Oni. So it must be clear for the coach that he is not ready to play yet, I can't imagine that he is dominating in practice and than put in the doghouse for some reasons. Still I am rooting for his developement and hope he will become what we all would like him to be for that team.
 

fishonjazz

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
A


Who is to say they are wrong if their decision is for win now purposes? You don't know how those guys looked atm. You just know what it ended up being.
And this isn't a Dray situation. These are guys who aren't even getting chances atm. That should tell us something, especially when Tony usually gets beaten.
So you would agree that starting David Lee over Draymond was the wrong decision?
Or you think Draymond just coincidentally became the better option at the exact same time David Lee got hurt?

Coaches are not God's who don't make mistakes.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Playing Bradley at PF is just so nonsensical that it has to say something about the end of bench guys unless Utah is trying to throw teams off and surprise them in the real games, which seems unlikely
 
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