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Game Thread (Scrimmage) Jazz @ Nets

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
So you would agree that starting David Lee over Draymond was the wrong decision?
Or you think Draymond just coincidentally became the better option at the exact same time David Lee got hurt?

Coaches are not God's who don't make mistakes.

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David Lee was a former all star and Green still got minutes.

We are talking about playing Bradley out of position over guys.


These are not comparable scenarios
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Playing Bradley at PF is just so nonsensical that it has to say something about the end of bench guys unless Utah is trying to throw teams off and surprise them in the real games, which seems unlikely
The second scenario seems less nonsensical than playing TB at the 4 imo.

It may also be that they want to get Ed some run without sacrificing TB's minutes or that they are thinking they will have to go with TB and Rudy if we play the Lakers.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
So you would agree that starting David Lee over Draymond was the wrong decision?
Or you think Draymond just coincidentally became the better option at the exact same time David Lee got hurt?

Coaches are not God's who don't make mistakes.

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So much the bolded portion of the post. They will err on the side of the proven, safe, and predictable. Hell, Popovich said Manu used to drive him crazy early in his career and he had to learn to take the good with the bad.

I love Quin but he's been less willing to experiment than say a Nick Nurse who will throw all sorts of **** against the wall. I'm kinda talking out both sides of my mouth a little because Quin is tryin TB with Rudy, but I just feel like the idea that lineup could work is so damned flawed... I think we'd be better off with Mudiay, Morgan, Brantley, or Oni at the 4 they all provide some sort of a matchup advantage that makes some sense. Throwing TB in the corner does nothing for us and ****s our spacing all to hell.

The seeding games are somewhat experimental imo too, so I think we still have time to see some different looks.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
David Lee was a former all star and Green still got minutes.

We are talking about playing Bradley out of position over guys.


These are not comparable scenarios
It may not be directly comparable, but it is sure the hell relevant when discussing that coaches won't rock the boat or can't always see what will work best in practice.
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
I must say I have seen some cool plays when both Rudy and Bradley are on the floor but they are gimmicky and can only be done once or twice per game.

Quin came up with some simple plays in general like Don setting screens for Rudy who fakes a screen to corner but rolls to the rim or corner screens for Clarkson. It was nice to see those.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
I must say I have seen some cool plays when both Rudy and Bradley are on the floor but they are gimmicky and can only be done once or twice per game.

Quin came up with some simple plays in general like Don setting screens for Rudy who fakes a screen to corner but rolls to the rim or corner screens for Clarkson. It was nice to see those.
While Bradley sat in the corner and thumbed his hole? Defenses won't even close out to him there. He's shown almost no promise as a shooter thus far and it isn't like with Favors where our defense gets a boost.

I'm hoping its just Ed getting some run or trying to see if this works for when we play the Lakers... or that Quin lost a bet.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
I was speaking about coaches having the ability to get things wrong. So literally every scenario can be used.

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Literally can not.

We are talking about a scenario where a guy who averaged like 18 and 10 the prior season was getting more minutes over a rotation player. Dray still played a decent amount, even with Lee in the rotation.

We are talking about Bradley, a guy who at his peak play in games has been serviceable, getting minutes out of position over guys who are getting nothing but garbage minutes.

This isnt a "next up" scenario. This HAS to be dudes just sucking in practice and not doing what Quin wants. Minutes are clearly up for grabs and for w/e reason these dudes arent proving enough to even beat out Tony Bradley out of position.
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
While Bradley sat in the corner and thumbed his hole? Defenses won't even close out to him there. He's shown almost no promise as a shooter thus far and it isn't like with Favors where our defense gets a boost.

I'm hoping its just Ed getting some run or trying to see if this works for when we play the Lakers... or that Quin lost a bet.
I don't disagree but those plays were still cool to see.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
It's one thing if Quin is worried about playing Morgan at center because the dude is late on most rotations guarding the rim. I understand that and him not wanting to "rock the boat" in that regard, but the moment he put Bradley in at PF, not once, but twice in the pre-season, that's a sign. Honestly shocked Morgan didnt get those minutes, but we will see. It's pretty clear to me Bradley has to suck horrendously to lose it because nothing that Morgan/Brantley did in pre-season minutes inspired any kind of hope.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Playing Bradley at PF is rocking the boat though...
It's more like putting rocks in the boat.

I honestly think it is that he wants TB to get his full run in but also wants to keep Ed engaged so it allows him to get some minutes too.

I think its funny you don't think this happens. Shake Milton and Alex Caruso are solid examples of guys that were benched for lesser players for vets and proven guys.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
It's one thing if Quin is worried about playing Morgan at center because the dude is late on most rotations guarding the rim. I understand that and him not wanting to "rock the boat" in that regard, but the moment he put Bradley in at PF, not once, but twice in the pre-season, that's a sign. Honestly shocked Morgan didnt get those minutes, but we will see. It's pretty clear to me Bradley has to suck horrendously to lose it because nothing that Morgan/Brantley did in pre-season minutes inspired any kind of hope.
I think that is the deal... even with Ed this year... you have to absolutely be god awful or a guy has to be sooo much better to "jump the line" in the rotation.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
It's more like putting rocks in the boat.

I honestly think it is that he wants TB to get his full run in but also wants to keep Ed engaged so it allows him to get some minutes too.

I think its funny you don't think this happens. Shake Milton and Alex Caruso are solid examples of guys that were benched for lesser players for vets and proven guys.
lmao where did I say I dont think it happens?
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
I think that is the deal... even with Ed this year... you have to absolutely be god awful or a guy has to be sooo much better to "jump the line" in the rotation.
Well yeah, Ed was awful, but he has a track record of being a very good rotation center (just last year). You are going to give that guy the benefit of the doubt he can turn it around until it becomes painfully obvious.

Bradley has no clout or reputation that is keeping his minutes. He simply has them because no one else is taking them.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
lmao where did I say I dont think it happens?
Well yeah, Ed was awful, but he has a track record of being a very good rotation center (just last year). You are going to give that guy the benefit of the doubt he can turn it around until it becomes painfully obvious.

Bradley has no clout or reputation that is keeping his minutes. He simply has them because no one else is taking them.
It is implied in what you are suggesting.

Ed was super bad for a long time... I understood why we stuck with him for a while.

TB was a first round pick and as we know DL loves his picks... so I'd say he has a lot more clout than some guys who played well in the G League. Tony has played well enough to hold his spot. But he hasn't been very good in the scrimmages... certainly wasn't good enough to think "we gotta get this guy more run". Brantley hasn't been bad... Morgan hasn't shown the flashes I'd like to see... I just think it's tough to suggest Tony is so much better than them in practice that it justifies playing him out of position. I think it is other factors... no need to chase tails though as you see it differently.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
It is implied in what you are suggesting.

Ed was super bad for a long time... I understood why we stuck with him for a while.

TB was a first round pick and as we know DL loves his picks... so I'd say he has a lot more clout than some guys who played well in the G League. Tony has played well enough to hold his spot. But he hasn't been very good in the scrimmages... certainly wasn't good enough to think "we gotta get this guy more run". Brantley hasn't been bad... Morgan hasn't shown the flashes I'd like to see... I just think it's tough to suggest Tony is so much better than them in practice that it justifies playing him out of position. I think it is other factors... no need to chase tails though as you see it differently.
How in the **** is it applied that Im making a huge generalization when I've multiple times said this is a unique situation?
 

fishonjazz

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
Literally can not.

We are talking about a scenario where a guy who averaged like 18 and 10 the prior season was getting more minutes over a rotation player. Dray still played a decent amount, even with Lee in the rotation.

We are talking about Bradley, a guy who at his peak play in games has been serviceable, getting minutes out of position over guys who are getting nothing but garbage minutes.

This isnt a "next up" scenario. This HAS to be dudes just sucking in practice and not doing what Quin wants. Minutes are clearly up for grabs and for w/e reason these dudes arent proving enough to even beat out Tony Bradley out of position.
I'm talking about the possibility of coaches being wrong. Not in any specific scenario but if it's at all possible for a coach to make a mistake.

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Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
How in the **** is it applied that Im making a huge generalization when I've multiple times said this is a unique situation?
I'm talking about the possibility of coaches being wrong. Not in any specific scenario but if it's at all possible for a coach to make a mistake.

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This... every situation is "unique" doesn't mean they aren't comparable and don't support a take.
 
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