Shaq Harrison

[Handlogten's Heros]

He's got a couple of seasons of playing on a team that played a ton of garbage time, so idk about that. Everything about Shaq's potential was based on garbage time.

Yes but not all of that was end of game garbage time. He played on some bad teams but it was during times when they were still trying to win the game... it was much more meaningful.

We took a hammer and used it as a screwdriver... well then yeah it’s not going to look great.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Oni has a trigger. He's ready to shoot. He isnt good yet, but he doesnt really shy away from taking his open looks like Shaq does.

That’s fine but his defense has been meh. So he shoots when he’s open and it doesn’t go in... I think Shaq is a better player and the shot is concerning but there isn’t a big difference between a guy who won’t shoot and a guy who misses a lot.

Just not sure Oni is better than Shaq at all. I like both players and would have preferred to keep them in case of injury. I very likely could be wrong on Shaq. The rest of the league voted and he got a two way contract. I just would have rather seen is sift for the player we do need rather than get Thomas... it isn’t just that the shots aren’t going in... it’s that he can’t get open enough to get clean looks because he’s slow and small. I’d have rather see us cut Shaq then go after RHJ or wait for a guy like Darius Miller to get released. Thomas sucks and we will keep him around because we spent a second on him.

 

[jom2003]

Bench player be good in garbage time to rest starters. Then is complaint of load management.

This. It actually takes skill to be good and not suck during garbage time. Spurs find a way to blow out the Suns while resting three of their main guys including Derozan. Our guys have mostly underperformed, blew our lead and even costed us games when we rest Rudy or Conley.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Yes he did. He had a broken hand during the tiny training camp and because of Covid restrictions and a condensed schedule practice time has been basically eliminated... please tell me how much practice time and scrimmaging he would have had to prove himself... I swear some of y’all aren’t paying attention.

I think he just wasnt good here that's the part that demands the most attention here. At no point did he show much when we saw him on the court and apparently didn't show much behind closed doors. I wish him the best else where. He really hasn't shown much for his career and he isn't really a young player with much upside still.

 

[latin jazz]

... I think Shaq is a better player

Just not sure Oni is better than Shaq at al

I like both players

I very likely could be wrong on Shaq

I'm not sure I'm following your train of thought here.

there isn’t a big difference between a guy who won’t shoot and a guy who misses a lot.

I think for Quin's system it does. He demands quick reads, moving the ball around and taking the open shot when it's there, even if you are not the greatest shooter on the team. Even in garbage time, you could see Shaq had none of those attributes. The team took a flyer on him based on his defense, but even then, he was meh against scrubs. Bad system fit for a mediocre player with no upside really...

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That’s fine but his defense has been meh. So he shoots when he’s open and it doesn’t go in... I think Shaq is a better player and the shot is concerning but there isn’t a big difference between a guy who won’t shoot and a guy who misses a lot.

Just not sure Oni is better than Shaq at all. I like both players and would have preferred to keep them in case of injury. I very likely could be wrong on Shaq. The rest of the league voted and he got a two way contract. I just would have rather seen is sift for the player we do need rather than get Thomas... it isn’t just that the shots aren’t going in... it’s that he can’t get open enough to get clean looks because he’s slow and small. I’d have rather see us cut Shaq then go after RHJ or wait for a guy like Darius Miller to get released. Thomas sucks and we will keep him around because we spent a second on him.

Jazz spent a second on Tucker and they cut him, so what you're saying is just conjecture.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Of the out of the rotation guys Brantley is the guy that deserves the most time. I think he has the most potential of any of the guys and has performed the best. I like Oni too but the shot hasn't come around and I would describe him as generally uncomfortable on offense. I think he will get more comfort and be a 35% ish shooter. The defense is just okay.

I think perimeter defense in today's NBA has changed. There aren't many lockdown guys anymore in part because so many guys are good shooters and can shoot off the dribble. So I think the best perimeter defenders are guys that can be disruptive and get their hands on the ball... which is what Shaq can do (he's proven that). That was the intrigue and he showed a little of that but in garbage time that isn't something that shines... practice... IDK how much scrimmaging is being done.

Shaq might just be a fringe NBA dude but I won't be surprised if he finds a niche 15 minute role on a good team.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm not sure I'm following your train of thought here.


I think for Quin's system it does. He demands quick reads, moving the ball around and taking the open shot when it's there, even if you are not the greatest shooter on the team. Even in garbage time, you could see Shaq had none of those attributes. The team took a flyer on him based on his defense, but even then, he was meh against scrubs. Bad system fit for a mediocre player with no upside really...

That's because the engineer of my train is drunk and the tracks are all over the place. I'm genuinely conflicted. I think Shaq is a useful NBA player... I also understand why he didn't play here... we have good useful NBA players and Niang has been good on both ends of the court. I think Oni could be a more useful player than Shaq... but he hasn't shown it yet. I see no problem keeping both because both guys could be a solution to a problem (the biggest problem imo) we have in perimeter defense.

The fact is that 30 nba teams decided Shaq wasn't worth a minimum deal. While I am stubborn AF and not necessarily one to feel the need to go with the crowd... I am also not dumb and it is likely something that I am wrong on. I won't sell my condo on Shaq island... but it isn't getting much VRBO traffic so maybe its a ****** island.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Jazz spent a second on Tucker and they cut him, so what you're saying is just conjecture.

Ummmm no we didn't. We signed him out of the g league and spent a second to offload his salary because the FO sucks at math.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Ummmm no we didn't. We signed him out of the g league and spent a second to offload his salary because the FO sucks at math.

Ahh yes, I reversed the order of operations. Either way, the Jazz arent above getting off players just because it cost them a 2nd round pick, either on the front or back end.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ahh yes, I reversed the order of operations. Either way, the Jazz arent above getting off players just because it cost them a 2nd round pick, either on the front or back end.

I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that Matt will be on the roster next year even if he never crosses the 20% from three threshold this year. Short of a long term injury they will guarantee his salary.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It just makes you look stupid as a GM to give up a second and then cut the guy you traded for. It doesn't make you stupid and might be the best move... but the aesthetics of doing it are not fun.

 

[homeytennis]

It seems like the conventional wisdom in front offices has done a 180 in the past five years about the value of 2nd round picks. In the KOC years and the early DL years they were valued because the team didn't have to guarantee the salary. Now they are viewed like crab grass. I think part of the thinking for the evolution is the willingness of teams to move on from first round picks and a bunch of them on the waiver wire. There are a bunch of Ian Clark types out there from non power 5 conferences that if you don't have a 2nd round pick go sign one of those guys as an UDFA or get a Justin Patton or Cameron Payne off the street.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Oni has a trigger. He's ready to shoot. He isnt good yet, but he doesnt really shy away from taking his open looks like Shaq does.

A quick trigger in the hands of a bad gunman is worse than a person without a gun.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

A quick trigger in the hands of a bad gunman is worse than a person without a gun 100% of the time.

I mean, this can be true for guys like Gobert. You certainly dont want him taking 3's just to be a 33% 3pt shooter, but for guys in the mold of Oni/Harrison I'm going to take the guy who wont hesitate to pull when he's left open.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Shaq was good enough to meet the minimum roster requirements and if you just let him play his game when needed (playing in a real situation against real players while not relying on him to run your offense), he’d be a useful player. I think assuming he’d be anything more than a situational player was a mistake and judging him as such was also a mistake. Ultimately, if the Jazz replace him with someone better or it puts them below the LT, I get it and would endorse it. That isn’t what happened.

In any case, he’s better than *** ThomAss. Dude sucks ****ing ****. Going even deeper in the hole in assets to grab poor-man’s Jimmer ain’t great.

 

[jom2003]

Perimeter D just isn't the priority for this team because they play a drop big strategy which they want to funnel everything to Rudy. So allowing the opponent a free drive to the rim in many cases is encouraged because Rudy is there.

But it's a flawed system when the opponent can exploit it by drawing Rudy out of the paint with switches on the pick n roll, or simply making their long range shots without having to challenge Rudy.

Perimeter D isn't as important for us during the regular season because funneling it to Rudy works and it's a strategy good enough to win us a spot in the playoffs. But in playoffs where it's a small sample size and guys like Jamal Murray are going bunker and hitting shots after shot, every team will need options on the perimeter to slow these guys down.

 

[jom2003]

Shaq was good enough to meet the minimum roster requirements and if you just let him play his game when needed (playing in a real situation against real players while not relying on him to run your offense), he’d be a useful player. I think assuming he’d be anything more than a situational player was a mistake and judging him as such was also a mistake. Ultimately, if the Jazz replace him with someone better or it puts them below the LT, I get it and would endorse it. That isn’t what happened.

In any case, he’s better than *** ThomAss. Dude sucks ****ing ****. Going even deeper in the hole in assets to grab poor-man’s Jimmer ain’t great.

Take that one last defensive possession against the Lakers when Quin left Clarkson and Bojan in to defend against Schroder, for example. Surely we can use a guy like Shaq in that situation.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Take that one last defensive possession against the Lakers when Quin left Clarkson and Bojan in to defend against Schroder, for example. Surely we can use a guy like Shaq in that situation.

If you just sub him for those situations and he gets you a game-winning stop, then he’s worth every virtual penny of investment as a pinch-hitter on a minimum contract.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Perimeter D just isn't the priority for this team because they play a drop big strategy which they want to funnel everything to Rudy. So allowing the opponent a free drive to the rim in many cases is encouraged because Rudy is there.

But it's a flawed system when the opponent can exploit it by drawing Rudy out of the paint with switches on the pick n roll, or simply making their long range shots without having to challenge Rudy.

Perimeter D isn't as important for us during the regular season because funneling it to Rudy works and it's a strategy good enough to win us a spot in the playoffs. But in playoffs where it's a small sample size and guys like Jamal Murray are going bunker and hitting shots after shot, every team will need options on the perimeter to slow these guys down.

If that is the case then wouldn't you want a bunch of guys on the outside that have active hands and are gambling for deflections? We are like last in the league in steals and forcing turnovers. Mike has been good at it... everyone else is no bueno.

I just think that is the low hanging fruit we should pursue... if our guys can't do it... then find a guy or two to mix in that can.

Bend but don't break works good as an every night strategy in the regular season... against playoff teams we will need more. Many of those teams are good at making the shots we allow and can make the other ones even when contested.

It also would help if we'd switch a little more... as @FAILED STATE has mentioned... a changeup would have some value... I watch how some teams screw our actions all to hell by switching things and think it might be something we could execute more often but might require more defenders like Shaq.