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Should the government step in?

One Brow said:
https://freethoughtblogs.com/dispat...s-liberal-values-against-religious-extremism/

I think it's appropriate for Israel's governemnt to take a firm stance about repsecting others in the public square. However, I read rhetoric in here from time to time that indicates this amounts to leftist totalitarianism, or something similar. Does anyone see that as being the case here?
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The group doing this does not have to respect those that believe differently. However the gov should stop them from forcing their views on others thru vandalism, intimidation, assault and other violent/aggresive means.
 
Always.

Wait, never.

There, I covered the political bases.
 
Gojazz79 said:
The group doing this does not have to respect those that believe differently. However the gov should stop them from forcing their views on others thru vandalism, intimidation, assault and other violent/aggresive means.
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If they are not allowed to enforce their views, how is that different from respecting other views?
 
One Brow said:
If they are not allowed to enforce their views, how is that different from respecting other views?
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I don't respect the view held by member of the KKK. They are scumbags, morons and pathetic. However I am not going to go throw rocks at them, spit on them, enforce where they are allowed to sit, vandalise and graffiti their property, fight the police, terrorise their children (all things done by the group in Isreal) till they change their views.

That is the difference.
 
bullies

This is where we left off with the bully thread, isn't it.

In a democracy where enlightened progressives have all the answers, we should of course enlist the government to enforce our principles, right? Like in the example of the recent NDAA vote which continues and codifies the military power to detain on mere "suspicion" American citizens on American Soil, and send them to Guantanamo Bay for indefinite and unexplained detention, a clear violation of an inalienable human right. That's not just a few extremists harrassing a cute little girl on her way to school. It is deadly force aimed at everyone. Anyone who does not fully support government policy is threatened by absolute deprivation of all liberty and respect.

And Israel's lobby inside US government circles and inside US military industrials is supporting this attack on American liberty. So, no, I don't think Netanyahu is anyone you could really expect to use government force "for good". Just a bigger bully than the religious believers whose ideals are under so severe an attack that it seems to require some useless, pathetic, and contemptible harassment of someone who doesn't wear the right clothes. And, still, they compare well with some of the orthodox moslems in the region whose laws enjoy government enforcement.

It's usually the worst cowards who most want police action. And it's usually true that democracies are simple/simpleminded majorities who want the power to bully others. That's why our founders resorted to the constitutional republic idea, with supposedly inviolable human rights.
 
How ironic.....

Jews are now forcing others to think, act, dress, behave, and live a certain way.

They spit at this girl because she wears different clothes? They force women to walk on the other side of the street? Make them ride in the back of the bus? I'm surprised this ultra-conservative Jewish group doesn't just demand that all liberal weenie Jews wear proper identification. Maybe they could have a night breaking shops and burning down synagogues of these other Jews. Maybe even send them away to camps for proper education and showers.....

My how quickly people forget.
 
Gojazz79 said:
I don't respect the view held by member of the KKK. They are scumbags, morons and pathetic. However I am not going to go throw rocks at them, spit on them, enforce where they are allowed to sit, vandalise and graffiti their property, fight the police, terrorise their children (all things done by the group in Isreal) till they change their views.

That is the difference.
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well if i meat a skinhead on the street with red shoelaces i'm gonna kick his ***. and call it self defense
 
Only if they physically assault someone or deny them civil rights as spelled out in the Israeli constitution. Otherwise it has nothing to do with the govt.
 
Scat,

If the goverment does not intervene, what do you think the parents should do? Tell the girl she just has to put up with it?
 
One Brow said:
Scat,

If the goverment does not intervene, what do you think the parents should do? Tell the girl she just has to put up with it?
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Yes. Raise her with self confidence and teach her that such people are small minded, immature jerks. That or tell her to picture them in their underwear when she walks by. Her laughing at them would probably upset them more than her immodest clothes do.
 
Scat said:
Yes. Raise her with self confidence and teach her that such people are small minded, immature jerks. That or tell her to picture them in their underwear when she walks by. Her laughing at them would probably upset them more than her immodest clothes do.
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That might work against just some bully at school. However this is groups of adults, spitting, throwing rocks and other forms of violence. kind of raises the bar.

@ Onebrow is is very possible that we are using differnt meanings.

@DutchJazzer that is one isolated incident. This is a campaign of assault, harrasment and intimidation on a community wide scale. If that happened here by say the Bloods the police/government step in. Effectiveness can be debated but they take action.
 
Gojazz79 said:
That might work against just some bully at school. However this is groups of adults, spitting, throwing rocks and other forms of violence. kind of raises the bar.
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My first suggestion covers this. They are physically assaulting passers' by. Local law enforcement needs to step in and arrest the perps for assault. There are already laws on the books to address this. There is no need for the national govt to get involved.
 
Scat said:
My first suggestion covers this. They are physically assaulting passers' by. Local law enforcement needs to step in and arrest the perps for assault. There are already laws on the books to address this. There is no need for the national govt to get involved.
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From what I understand the problem has grown past local law enforcements ability/willingness to handle the problem. They engage police in fights, rock throwing, trash can burnings...
 
One Brow said:
Perhaps. I notice that you went on for three paragraphs without addresing the question.
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When I was in Israel, and in the West Bank even more so, I just had to accept the fact that I had no rights unless the soldiers thought they needed to weigh in. Yes, there were little groups of armed men at their little stations, but they didn't go around escorting anyone. I saw attempts of murder that were averted only by being able to just get away somehow. Oh, and I suppose you heard about some people just being blown up on public transport or in restaurants.

Circumstances are such the govenment is not able to take up a little object lesson about a little girl whose mother is just nuts, deliberately going out of her way to make a scene. If it was a moslem neighborhood, not wearing appropriately "conservative" or modest clothing, the government would be making an example of her. Not a good example, either.
 
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babe said:
Circumstances are such the govenment is not able to take up a little object lesson about a little girl whose mother is just nuts, deliberately going out of her way to make a scene. If it was a moslem neighborhood, not wearing appropriately "conservative" or modest clothing, the government would be making an example of her. Not a good example, either.
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That's an interesting accusation to launch at the mother. What is your basis for it?

As for what would happen in a Muslim neighborhood, that rather depends on the type and degree of fanaticism possessed by those Muslims, just like with any other religious group.
 
One Brow said:
That's an interesting accusation to launch at the mother. What is your basis for it?

As for what would happen in a Muslim neighborhood, that rather depends on the type and degree of fanaticism possessed by those Muslims, just like with any other religious group.
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My basis is personal observation on the ground in Israel. Some years ago, but things have got worse, not better.

A mother who lives in a war zone who puts her daughter out on the street in a deliberate provocation/exhibition for publicity is demonstrating a questionable set of values in doing so. If I call her "nuts", that's my opinion perhaps, but it doesn't make sense to me. I wouldn't put my girls in that situation.
 
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