What's new
By:

Summer League Thread

KqWIN said:
The thing that sparked this whole argument is a guy saying that French guys are overrated and they are overrated because they are French. What me and @stitches have been saying this whole time is that it's dumb to dislike Bilal on the basis of being French. Questioning his production is not a dumb argument. I think there are reasons to believe he's better than the raw production, but that's besides the point. If we had a problem with the production based argument, we would not have said "you should actually be talking about his low production/rawness" multiple times. One of the reasons this French = Overrated stuff is ridiculous in the first place is that there are very obvious question marks about Bilal.
Click to expand...

You guys are arguing against nobody then. You’ve been wasting all this time lmao. Not a single poster on here has said don’t draft them because they’re French or because they played in that league. It’s people saying don’t draft him because his production was terrible and on top of it the history of prospects from that league isn’t on his side. It’s one thing to consider with the main thing being he just wasn’t that good. It’s all projecting with him and I am super wary of prospects where his best quality is what he could potentially be. You really been wasting all this time and paragraphs for nothing because you want to make up arguments which is ironic because you accuse others of doing that very thing.
 
stitches said:
IMO if you just evaluate the player the whole is he French or Spaniard or Greek or German becomes completely irrelevant. There is nothing about being French that should make his shooting and offensive polish any better than it is on the tape. There is nothing about being French that will make his 7'2" wingspan any shorter or his athleticism any less impressive. Just freaking evaluate the player, his skills and his tools. "French" doesn't tell me anything about him as a basketball player. "French" is not a basketball attribute and you should ever see it as a basketball descriptor on a basketball scouting report. "Well, he's long and athletic but his jumpshot is very French"...

To me focusing on him being French adds nothing and describes nothing about him that we don't already know by just... watching him play.
Click to expand...

Again, you are arguing against nobody. Having terrible production in that French league with low usage doesn’t bode well for translating to the NBA. Quite literally it has never happened. Bilal would be the first.
 
stitches said:
IMO if you just evaluate the player the whole is he French or Spaniard or Greek or German becomes completely irrelevant. There is nothing about being French that should make his shooting and offensive polish any better than it is on the tape. There is nothing about being French that will make his 7'2" wingspan any shorter or his athleticism any less impressive. Just freaking evaluate the player, his skills and his tools. "French" doesn't tell me anything about him as a basketball player. "French" is not a basketball attribute and you should ever see it as a basketball descriptor on a basketball scouting report. "Well, he's long and athletic but his jumpshot is very French"...

To me focusing on him being French adds nothing and describes nothing about him that we don't already know by just... watching him play.
Click to expand...
you realize nobody is arguing he's not a great prospect because he's french, right?

the argument is that he played in a league - which happens to be the french league - that hasn't had a great history of guys hitting in the NBA...AND...that he wasn't that good in that particular league. not one person is arguing he's not a great prospect on the basis that he's french.

it's almost as if you're wanting that to be the argument so you can shoot it down - but at the end of the day all you've done is created a straw man.
 
stitches said:
IMO if you just evaluate the player the whole is he French or Spaniard or Greek or German becomes completely irrelevant. There is nothing about being French that should make his shooting and offensive polish any better than it is on the tape. There is nothing about being French that will make his 7'2" wingspan any shorter or his athleticism any less impressive. Just freaking evaluate the player, his skills and his tools. "French" doesn't tell me anything about him as a basketball player. "French" is not a basketball attribute and you should never see it as a basketball descriptor on a basketball scouting report. "Well, he's long and athletic but his jumpshot is very French and his production is borederline-French"...
Click to expand...

Exactly. I feel like this could not be more obvious with Bilal and Wemby both being French and being teammates. Their Frenchenss is does not matter. It's their game, production, skillset, physical profile....that's the stuff that actually matters. I think Wemby missed the deadline for the previous draft by a few days. If he had been drafted a year earlier, it means nothing for Bilal's chances. I feel like there's so much irony in trying to prove that the French League produces busts. If that was a good indicator.....what would you have thought about Frank Ntlikina before he was drafted? You would have looked at history and seen quite a lot of success for French prospects. Maybe the lesson learned from Frank isn't that we should predict future success from a player's fellow countrymen.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Again, you are arguing against nobody. Having terrible production in that French league with low usage doesn’t bode well for translating.
Click to expand...
Just a reminder where this whole 20 page discussion started - with me saying that deanondraft's comments about French players being overrated based on 3 Bilal SL games were lazy and bad analysis.
 
stitches said:
Just a reminder where this whole 20 page discussion started - with me saying that deanondraft's comments about French players being overrated based on 3 Bilal SL games were lazy and bad analysis.
Click to expand...

Dean’s comment was posted as a joke to Cy. Sorry you missed that.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
you realize nobody is arguing he's not a great prospect because he's french, right?

the argument is that he played in a league - which happens to be the french league - that hasn't had a great history of guys hitting in the NBA...AND...that he wasn't that good in that particular league. not one person is arguing he's not a great prospect on the basis that he's french.

it's almost as if you're wanting that to be the argument so you can shoot it down - but at the end of the day all you've done is created a straw man.
Click to expand...

You really should post more outside of draft threads. I really appreciate your posts when you do post.

Another great post here that hits the nail right on the head.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
you realize nobody is arguing he's not a great prospect because he's french, right?

the argument is that he played in a league - which happens to be the french league - that hasn't had a great history of guys hitting in the NBA...AND...that he wasn't that good in that particular league. not one person is arguing he's not a great prospect on the basis that he's french.

it's almost as if you're wanting that to be the argument so you can shoot it down - but at the end of the day all you've done is created a straw man.
Click to expand...
I mean this is literally where this whole thing started ... with deanondraft's comment that the lessons we should learn from Bilal's 3 SL games is that 1. French players are overrated and 2. trading down is better than trading up....

Both of those are HORRIFIC and lazy analysis.
 
KqWIN said:
It was always about their their "Frenchness" and whether or not that matters.
Click to expand...

French prospects from that league*

Which again is a fair stance based on history. If Bilal played in college and put up this production nobody would talk about him and nobody would care that he’s French at all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top