The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

[The Thriller]

Is this the type of country we want to live in?



I’m glad Youngkin has heard the cries of the economically depressed and is tackling real issues to help improve the lives of countless “forgotten men.” /s

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Is this the type of country we want to live in?

You mean a country where parents have a voice in how their children are educated? Yes, that is exactly the type of country we want to live in. Even Democrats are finally waking up to this after Terry McAuliffe blew up his campaign by saying "I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach."

It was only about a week ago the Michigan Democrat Party posted on their official Facebook:

"Not sure where this ‘parents-should-control-what-is-taught-in-schools-because-they-are-our-kids’ is originating, but parents do have the option to send their kids to a hand-selected private school at their own expense if this is what they desire. The purpose of public education in public schools is not to teach kids only what parents want them to be taught. It is to teach them what society needs them to know. The client of the public school is not the parent, but the entire community, the public."
-Michigan Democrat Party

The Michigan GOP was nice enough to help the Michigan Democrats get their message out.


Curiously, the Michigan Democrat Party changed their mind. Their original post was deleted and replace with:

"We have deleted a post that ignored the important role parents play—and should play—in Michigan public schools. Parents need to have a say in their children’s education, end of story. The post does not reflect the views of Michigan Democrats and should not be misinterpreted as a statement of support from our elected officials or candidates."
-Michigan Democrat Party

Thriller, if you want to see Democrats go down in flames then bemoaning that parents should have no way of communicating concerns over their child's education is exactly the policy you are looking for. Carry on.

 

[The Thriller]

This is a good tweet and the Post story is outstanding. Intimidating teachers from teaching real history to instead teach a revisionist fake history where we avoid teaching about systemic racism, the Holocaust, and anything that makes white conservatives feel uncomfortable is not a sign of a healthy democracy; but of an authoritarian country.

 

[The Thriller]

You mean a country where parents have a voice in how their children are educated? Yes, that is exactly the type of country we want to live in. Even Democrats are finally waking up to this after Terry McAuliffe blew up his campaign by saying "I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach."

It was only about a week ago the Michigan Democrat Party posted on their official Facebook:


The Michigan GOP was nice enough to help the Michigan Democrats get their message out.


Curiously, the Michigan Democrat Party changed their mind. Their original post was deleted and replace with:


Thriller, if you want to see Democrats go down in flames then bemoaning that parents should have no way of communicating concerns over their child's education is exactly the policy you are looking for. Carry on.

Admitting you don't know that state and local school boards exist would've been easier to write.

 

[LogGrad98]

Parent's should absolutely have a say in what children are taught. However this is a delicate and fine line, as it is easy for parents to overwhelm the system and ensure that garbage is taught to the kids because it fits their dogma. It is, of course, possible to swing the pendulum entirely the other way and indoctrinate kids rather than teach them. When these topics stray from the facts and into the realm of opinion, all too often there is no dissenting view, especially in a classroom by necessity dominated by a single voice. We need the checks and balances that a voice from the parent's affords us, without entirely caving to one sides doctrine vs another. Unfortunately in these cases the true casualties are truth and facts substituted with doctrine and dogma.

My daughter, in Jr. High, was asked by her social studies teacher during their section on American politics, to write a letter to then President Bush expressing that she did not support the war. She wrote a letter expressing her opinion that the war should continue as long as it was just and had a clear outcome in mind. We had discussed the topic often in our house and I encouraged the kids to read about these things and form their own opinions, and all of my kids often came to different views on the current events we looked at. She turned in her letter and got her grade back as an "F". When we talked to the teacher she said the assignment was to show that we do not support the war. We had to go to the school board to get the grade over-turned, as the principal agreed with the teacher that we have to teach the kids what is right and wrong in politics as well as in other school subjects. And in their view the war was wrong so that is what must be taught. It turns out of the 60-odd kids she had write the letters, about 1/4 wrote something different than she intended, all got "F" grades, and yet parents of only 3 kids came forward to contest what was being "taught" with this assignment. The grades were overturned, and she found some excuse to miraculously give all the kids she disagreed with "B" grades while all of them that wrote exactly what she wanted got "A" grades, at least from the ones we heard from which was a good chunk of the students overall since we got them all talking about it. We also found out later that she actually mailed all the letters that spoke out against the war, but none of the other letters were mailed.

This was not the only time we faced this kind of thing. My oldest son went to a technical college-prep charter high school in Utah. He had a science teacher who had to go over the section on evolution. He was a staunch very old-school mormon and when he taught it he pulled maybe 10% from the book and filled in the rest about how it was all garbage and God never intended for man to believe it. Someone else got wind of it and a parent again confronted the school. The teacher was not reprimanded or anything as far as we know, but they had a different teacher come in for that section and deliver the material straight from the book.

These are not isolated instances. You can see them all over the news, as some of the quotes above allude to.

This is all just indoctrination of our kids in one form or another, who more often than not do not know better than to trust their authority figures. It is compounded by how often a kid complains about a teacher and the parent just says "look they are the teacher, they are the authority, you have to listen to them", so we reinforce this relationship as parents more often than not. If the teachers are truly looking to get the kids thinking and forming opinions about these topics, that is great. If the first teacher above had asked them to read 3 articles from different sources and form an opinion and write a letter expressing that opinion then graded it on the depth of their research and a logical thought process that would be awesome as it would get them to consider dissenting viewpoints. But so often the teacher does not want dissenting views, they want to teach their own beliefs in a vacuum so the kids can learn what is "important to society" as they see fit. Therefore this kind of **** must be at a minimum tempered, but hopefully eradicated from our school system, from either side. And without parents having a voice this kind of stuff would largely go unchecked.

 

[The Thriller]

Parent's should absolutely have a say in what children are taught. However this is a delicate and fine line, as it is easy for parents to overwhelm the system and ensure that garbage is taught to the kids because it fits their dogma. It is, of course, possible to swing the pendulum entirely the other way and indoctrinate kids rather than teach them. When these topics stray from the facts and into the realm of opinion, all too often there is no dissenting view, especially in a classroom by necessity dominated by a single voice. We need the checks and balances that a voice from the parent's affords us, without entirely caving to one sides doctrine vs another. Unfortunately in these cases the true casualties are truth and facts substituted with doctrine and dogma.

My daughter, in Jr. High, was asked by her social studies teacher during their section on American politics, to write a letter to then President Bush expressing that she did not support the war. She wrote a letter expressing her opinion that the war should continue as long as it was just and had a clear outcome in mind. We had discussed the topic often in our house and I encouraged the kids to read about these things and form their own opinions, and all of my kids often came to different views on the current events we looked at. She turned in her letter and got her grade back as an "F". When we talked to the teacher she said the assignment was to show that we do not support the war. We had to go to the school board to get the grade over-turned, as the principal agreed with the teacher that we have to teach the kids what is right and wrong in politics as well as in other school subjects. And in their view the war was wrong so that is what must be taught. It turns out of the 60-odd kids she had write the letters, about 1/4 wrote something different than she intended, all got "F" grades, and yet parents of only 3 kids came forward to contest what was being "taught" with this assignment. The grades were overturned, and she found some excuse to miraculously give all the kids she disagreed with "B" grades while all of them that wrote exactly what she wanted got "A" grades, at least from the ones we heard from which was a good chunk of the students overall since we got them all talking about it. We also found out later that she actually mailed all the letters that spoke out against the war, but none of the other letters were mailed.

This was not the only time we faced this kind of thing. My oldest son went to a technical college-prep charter high school in Utah. He had a science teacher who had to go over the section on evolution. He was a staunch very old-school mormon and when he taught it he pulled maybe 10% from the book and filled in the rest about how it was all garbage and God never intended for man to believe it. Someone else got wind of it and a parent again confronted the school. The teacher was not reprimanded or anything as far as we know, but they had a different teacher come in for that section and deliver the material straight from the book.

These are not isolated instances. You can see them all over the news, as some of the quotes above allude to.

This is all just indoctrination of our kids in one form or another, who more often than not do not know better than to trust their authority figures. It is compounded by how often a kid complains about a teacher and the parent just says "look they are the teacher, they are the authority, you have to listen to them", so we reinforce this relationship as parents more often than not. If the teachers are truly looking to get the kids thinking and forming opinions about these topics, that is great. If the first teacher above had asked them to read 3 articles from different sources and form an opinion and write a letter expressing that opinion then graded it on the depth of their research and a logical thought process that would be awesome as it would get them to consider dissenting viewpoints. But so often the teacher does not want dissenting views, they want to teach their own beliefs in a vacuum so the kids can learn what is "important to society" as they see fit. Therefore this kind of **** must be at a minimum tempered, but hopefully eradicated from our school system, from either side. And without parents having a voice this kind of stuff would largely go unchecked.

Did you contact your local school board member about this assignment? Lessons need to match standards. Which, prior to Common Core, standards weren't as standardized as they are now. Something that conservatives fought against... Board members should know about these types of assignments.

Charters are nothing more than unregulated pseudo private religious schools using public funds so it doesn't surprise me that your son was taught religioscience and that nothing was done to change the teacher from teaching that.

One doesn't have to imagine how bad things will get if you add "tip lines" or "banning anything that makes white kids feel uncomfortable." That's going to have a chilling effect on education. I've already spoken to educators who are fearful about teaching about slavery, Jim Crow, or culture in foreign languages. History and Language Arts teachers in particular are just cutting lessons that are completely in alignment with standards and provide students good learning experiences. I spoke to one educator in Alpine School District who isn't going to read To Kill a Mockingbird anymore out of fear of being labeled a CRT Socialist. The book has been cleared by the district, the lesson is in alignment with the standards, the grade level is high school soooooooo what are we doing here?

It doesn't take much to silence educators into becoming mere tools of indoctrination. That is what Republicans are doing with their anti-CRT bills and anonymous tip lines.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

This was not the only time we faced this kind of thing. My oldest son went to a technical college-prep charter high school in Utah. He had a science teacher who had to go over the section on evolution. He was a staunch very old-school mormon and when he taught it he pulled maybe 10% from the book and filled in the rest about how it was all garbage and God never intended for man to believe it.

I spent one year at Cedar City High School and the teacher in that class taught us to diagram sentences with all sentences in the discussion and assigned work being pulled from the Bible. When I try to explain how small town schools are a completely different world from the Salt Lake valley that is one of my go-to examples even if it is on the tame end of just how different the school going experience is.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Admitting you don't know that state and local school boards exist would've been easier to write.

As an educator or former educator, do you know if there is a form of dyslexia that makes it difficult for individuals to read the room?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

CNN has an article this morning proclaiming the economy isn't as bad as you think. There are four states who have fully regained the jobs lost during the pandemic! Of course every single one of them has a Republican governor. The article goes on to admit the biggest Democrat run states, California and New York, have only recovered 70% and 60% respectively of their pre-pandemic employment levels but at least we have a roadmap now: vote Democrats out and this pandemic is done!!!! Whoohoo!!! All we need is a good 2022 election with a follow-up in 2024 and once again it will be Morning in America.

These 4 states have fully regained the jobs lost during the pandemic

America's job market hasn't fully recovered yet. But some states are already back to normal.

www.cnn.com

 

[The Thriller]

As an educator or former educator, do you know if there is a form of dyslexia that makes it difficult for individuals to read the room?

Ad hominem attacks? How fitting.

I figured I'd cut to the chase instead of engaging in your bad usual faith arguments and hyperbole. If you have questions or complaints about curriculum, they need to be addressed by local and state school boards. There is a process for this. We are a republic not a democracy, at least that's what I've been told recently . Institutions need to be respected and process needs to be followed.

It's amazing how many Americans have no idea how their government works. It actually explains quite a lot frankly.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

If you have questions or complaints about curriculum, they need to be addressed by local and state school boards. There is a process for this. We are a republic not a democracy, at least that's what I've been told recently . Institutions need to be respected and process needs to be followed.

In a normally functioning government, yes. That is the way it should be done but in Virginia where Youngkin just enacted this channel for parents to express their concerns the government is not functioning normally. The schools, which are part of the executive branch, are not all accepting directives from the chief executive. They seem to have the impression that they are above or separate from the state government. They are not and Youngkin is preparing to make the moves necessary to get these rogue school districts to do their jobs. It will undoubtedly be a two-pronged approach of using the courts and making use of recorded messages from concerned parents to sway public opinion in election advertisements to get these bad board members voted out. Being that parents aren't only concerned about school board members, some of the recordings may get used against Democrats more broadly in the upcoming elections.

It is extremely shortsighted for Democrats to back these school boards and teacher's unions who openly dismiss parental input. I'm predicting Democrats will run from this the same way they are running away from 'defund the police'.

 

[The Thriller]

In a normally functioning government, yes. That is the way it should be done but in Virginia where Youngkin just enacted this channel for parents to express their concerns the government is not functioning normally. The schools, which are part of the executive branch, are not all accepting directives from the chief executive. They seem to have the impression that they are above or separate from the state government. They are not and Youngkin is preparing to make the moves necessary to get these rogue school districts to do their jobs. It will undoubtedly be a two-pronged approach of using the courts and making use of recorded messages from concerned parents to sway public opinion in election advertisements to get these bad board members voted out. Being that parents aren't only concerned about school board members, some of the recordings may get used against Democrats more broadly in the upcoming elections.

It is extremely shortsighted for Democrats to back these school boards and teacher's unions who openly dismiss parental input. I'm predicting Democrats will run from this the same way they are running away from 'defund the police'.

LOL! This is another hilarious spin of what's actually happening. I think you should create a separate thread, just as you've done before regarding the super important debate over the type of government we have, that specifically explains how governors get to dictate how public education works.

Again, just admitting that you have no idea how government works would be much easier.

 

[One Brow]

The schools, which are part of the executive branch, are not all accepting directives from the chief executive.

Maybe it's different in Virginia, but in all the states I've lived in, school boards were part of the county government or even a separate entity, not part of the state government, and their directives came from boards that set state educational standards, not the governors.

 

[The Thriller]

Maybe it's different in Virginia, but in all the states I've lived in, school boards were part of the county government or even a separate entity, not part of the state government, and their directives came from boards that set state educational standards, not the governors.

Shhhhh that ruins his argument.

There’s no point to having local and state school boards if governors get to absorb their responsibilities. And besides, I'm really looking forward to him creating a separate thread in an attempt to prove his point.

 

[The Thriller]

It has been *Chef's Kiss* to see the same people who have whined and whimpered incessantly about indoctrination, intimidation, and cancel culture now openly cheerlead the indoctrination, intimidation, and cancel culture by governors that belong to their tribe. That is EXACTLY what Gov Youngkin is doing. He's intimidating educators to indoctrinate students or risk being cancelled. It just goes to show how insane tribalism has become in this country. Governors don't get to write curriculum, set standards, or set up anonymous tip lines to get teachers in trouble. If you don't see a problem with this then just imagine what you'd say if a Dem governor did this and you'll have your answer.

Secondly, educators (especially at the K-12 level) are a reflection of their culture. For the most part in Utah, you're going to get a white Mormon conservative since it's a reflection of the culture and population. There are definitely some exceptions in inner city/urban environments but not here in Utah. If you see a questionable assignment, it's most likely a misunderstanding. I remember back when I first began teaching and had been sick. I returned to class without a lesson ready. I grabbed the DVD "Guns Germs and Steel" from our library. DVDs always need to be previewed except, I didn't have time to preview this. I played it first period and during that period discovered that it had some inappropriate content. Lesson learned. During that first period I was able to draw up a better lesson for the remaining periods. I remember another time I fielded an email from a parent who was worried that we were learning about Islam in school. I emailed her back explaining that we were learning about the 5 major world religions, not just Islam. It was a good reminder that for these topics to let parents know what's going on. Again, a slight misunderstanding easily resolved in 1 day and 1 email. No need to dox me on social media (social media had just started) or turn me into the Gestapo.

Sometimes assignments have poorly written questions. It happens! I remember one of my assignments when I taught asked something stupid about slavery. I honestly don't even remember the exact question but it was designed to get students to think from different perspectives. It was something like, "How would you feel if you had been enslaved and worked on this plantation." Not a very good question and should have been better. Asking probing and grade appropriate questions is hard! Teachers through experience and collaboration hopefully improve just as we all do in our careers. Teachers are human beings too. If you feel strongly about something, email the teacher. Few teachers will brush off a respectful and sincere email. I think some of you haven't actually contacted a teacher and are merely recycling poor stereotypes from social media. Teachers want their students and parents to feel good about class.

Lastly, the mob doesn't get to write curriculum. Could you imagine? What happened if @fishonjazz thought that teaching WWII and the Holocaust was important for American History II (high school) while @Red found teaching the Holocaust to be offensive? Now what? This is why we have state and local school board members WHO ARE ELECTED to make these decisions (not governors acting like dictators). The angry mob can contact their board representatives to voice their views. But ultimately, the ELECTED SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS together with the LEGISLATIVE BRANCH and STATE OFFICE OF EDUCATION work out curriculum. If you find that a teacher isn't following the curriculum, your first step should be to contact that teacher. If that's not working out, contact the principal and your local school board member. These are the institutions you need to respect and the process to follow.

Don't like the curriculum? Contact your legislator and school board members. Run for public office! But again, setting up hotlines to intimidate teachers, doxxing teachers online, or demanding your governor to act like a dictator is not the answer. Learn how our government works would eliminate 99 percent of the problems we see today.

Board Members

www.schools.utah.gov

Utah State Board of Education (USBE)

www.schools.utah.gov

District Map

le.utah.gov

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Maybe it's different in Virginia, but in all the states I've lived in, school boards were part of the county government or even a separate entity, not part of the state government, and their directives came from boards that set state educational standards, not the governors.

I don't know about all states but the ones I do know, including Virginia but only because I just now looked them up, that is not the case. In Virginia the Governor appoints the Superintendent of Public Instruction who has oversight of the local school boards. All of it falls under the Virginia Department of Education and it is all part of the executive branch of the state.

http://www.cteresource.org/TFTfinalWebFiles/ThemeII/Resources/ThemeII_UnitII/04_GovofSchools_HO.pdf

 

[One Brow]

I don't know about all states but the ones I do know, including Virginia but only because I just now looked them up, that is not the case. In Virginia the Governor appoints the Superintendent of Public Instruction who has oversight of the local school boards. All of it falls under the Virginia Department of Education and it is all part of the executive branch of the state.

http://www.cteresource.org/TFTfinalWebFiles/ThemeII/Resources/ThemeII_UnitII/04_GovofSchools_HO.pdf

None of which says the county or local school boards are part of that chain of command.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/directories/index.shtml

In Virginia, local school boards are responsible for the day-to-day governance of schools in each division. This includes decisions about personnel, student discipline, attendance boundaries, local textbook selection, dress codes and grading scales.

Check your own link, for that matter:

The division superintendent is the chief executive officer of the local school division. This official is appointed by the local school board for a term of not more than five years. Once appointed, the division superintendent is a state officer who can be removed by the board only for cause (i.e., failure to perform legal duties or for a removable offense specified in law). The division superintendent is responsible for carrying out the policies enacted by the division and state boards.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

None of which says the county or local school boards are part of that chain of command.

That would be what the word "overseen" means.

 

[One Brow]

That would be what the word "overseen" means.

Actually, in this case, it would not. Take some time to actually learn about this, please. Here, "oversee" means to "set standards for", such as the health department overseeing the issuing of cosmetology licenses. That doesn't mean they get to decide who works in a particular salon.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Governors don't get to write curriculum, set standards ...

STATE OFFICE OF EDUCATION work out curriculum.

Tell me Thriller, who appoints the leaders of the STATE OFFICE OF EDUCATION?

It is also quite instructed that all of the links you provided have a utah.gov address. County government have their own domains. Here is the one for Iron County: https://www.ironcounty.net/

Like it or not, schools are part of the executive branch of the states.

If you find that a teacher isn't following the curriculum, your first step should be to contact that teacher. If that's not working out, contact the principal and your local school board member.

...and if that's not working then you have to take action from the state level like is currently happening in Virginia. You do not have to throw up your hands if a school board believe they've been elected emperor.