The 'BIG SWING' thread

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Ooops. I am not a so called 'capologist' but I found this article. For every dollar the Cavs spend above $128 million they will be hit with the repeater tax which starts at $3.75 and is estimated to be upwards of $3.88 per dollar for the Cavs because they go beyond the first threshold!

So, trading Tristan Thomson for Favors reduces their payroll from $137 mill to $132.6 mill. That saves them $17 million in repeater tax this season plus $4.4 million in salary difference. That move saves them $21 million dollars immediately. The implications beyond this year are major as well since that repeater tax makes every dollar over the cap continue to hit them at $3.75 - $4.75 per dollar are crazy high. Assuming the Cavs want to sign IT, resign Lebron, and have a team of 14 players... they are going to be in the luxury tax again next year. That repeater tax only bites if they are above the $128 line (which may move). But the Cavs cannot have a big three if they don't resign IT because they will be over the cap. The Cavs essentially have to shed salary or they are going to be paying crazy money next year. If they resign IT for just $22 million then they are at $144 million next year with 10 players on the roster. Filling out the roster with minimums probably puts them around $155 million which means they are paying a minimum of $3.75 and growing to $4.75 per dollar over the $128 number. That's around $115 million dollars in luxury tax, repeater tax, not including salaries. So... we are looking at a team that is operating at a loss, surely!

Surely the Cavs should be doing everything they can to get below the Luxury tax this year so they don't go repeater tax crazy. Dumping Iman Shumpert for a second rounder should be right up their alley because it would save them huge dollars.

If we grabbed that Nets pick, you know what Dennis and Quin and J. Bryant would do with it...

And I don't think that the Cavs fans would hate what Favors delivers on the defensive end of the floor either.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/06/cavaliers_luxury_tax_kyle_korv.html

 

[LoPo]

I would not want Thompson next to Gobert. If we don't like Favors, we would hate Thompson even more.

I understand about the cap implications. Good points. Here is how I would address that:

As of mid-December, their entire roster is eligible for trade. So I would do:

Favors ($12) and maybe a future 2nd
for
Frye ($7.42 expiring), Calderon ($1.47 expiring), Osman ($2.64) and their 2018 1st (projected bottom 5).

So the trade is really Favors' $12 for $11.5. The money is almost dead even. Maybe the Cavs lose $1 on the deal but it is definitely worth it.

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[infection]

So use Favors to move up a few spots in draft position?

 

[framer]

I would not want Thompson next to Gobert. If we don't like Favors, we would hate Thompson even more.

I understand about the cap implications. Good points. Here is how I would address that:

As of mid-December, their entire roster is eligible for trade. So I would do:

Favors ($12) and maybe a future 2nd
for
Frye ($7.42 expiring), Calderon ($1.47 expiring), Osman ($2.64) and their 2018 1st (projected bottom 5).

So the trade is really Favors' $12 for $11.5. The money is almost dead even. Maybe the Cavs lose $1 on the deal but it is definitely worth it.

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Hard no here. None of that is even worth having even if Favors leaves for nothing. We could buy a pick in that range (but probably not from Denver.) Additionally, with this deal you have to cut two players on the current roster. I'm not sure Royce is worth losing for Calderon or Osman.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

I would not want Thompson next to Gobert. If we don't like Favors, we would hate Thompson even more.

I understand about the cap implications. Good points. Here is how I would address that:

As of mid-December, their entire roster is eligible for trade. So I would do:

Favors ($12) and maybe a future 2nd
for
Frye ($7.42 expiring), Calderon ($1.47 expiring), Osman ($2.64) and their 2018 1st (projected bottom 5).

So the trade is really Favors' $12 for $11.5. The money is almost dead even. Maybe the Cavs lose $1 on the deal but it is definitely worth it.

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The Cavs would lose $2 million on that deal. They probably don't give up that pick without getting serious cap relief. Paying $2 million extra in luxury tax for a one year rental on Favors isn't serious cap relief. They would probably consider Favors and Bradley or Oneal for Shumpert, Frye, and the pick on cap relief alone. That would save them $20 million this year and the $11 million x repeater tax they are due to pay Shumpert goes to IT saving them big cash next year to remain competitive. We would be taking Frye only because he is an expiring contract and Shumpert may or may not opt in to stay with Utah. That makes more sense then them spending more money AND dumping the pick.

 

[infection]

I don’t care about Cleveland’s pick. Brooklyn pick and we’re in business but they’re not trading that for cap relief.

 

[LoPo]

Hard no here. None of that is even worth having even if Favors leaves for nothing. We could buy a pick in that range (but probably not from Denver.) Additionally, with this deal you have to cut two players on the current roster. I'm not sure Royce is worth losing for Calderon or Osman.

So a late 2018 first is worse than losing Favors for nothing? So you are saying late first rounders are worthless.

And then you say we "could just buy one." That doesnt happen anymore.

And lastly, we would cut Calderon unless we lined up a trade for Rubio. I might even cut Frye too instead of Royce. The whole reason to trade Favors is to get a 1st and a player with potential (Osman). Frye and Calderon are dumps either immediately or in the summer.

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[LoPo]

The Cavs would lose $2 million on that deal. They probably don't give up that pick without getting serious cap relief. Paying $2 million extra in luxury tax for a one year rental on Favors isn't serious cap relief. They would probably consider Favors and Bradley or Oneal for Shumpert, Frye, and the pick on cap relief alone. That would save them $20 million this year and the $11 million x repeater tax they are due to pay Shumpert goes to IT saving them big cash next year to remain competitive. We would be taking Frye only because he is an expiring contract and Shumpert may or may not opt in to stay with Utah. That makes more sense then them spending more money AND dumping the pick.

Cleveland is not worried one bit about the 2017/2018 luxury tax. Having LeBron there and happy pays the bills. Sure, we try to make it even to make the trade more attractive to them, but to say they care about salary dumping is just silly.

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[framer]

So a late 2018 first is worse than losing Favors for nothing? So you are saying late first rounders are worthless.

And then you say we "could just buy one." That doesnt happen anymore.

And lastly, we would cut Calderon unless we lined up a trade for Rubio. I might even cut Frye too instead of Royce. The whole reason to trade Favors is to get a 1st and a player with potential (Osman). Frye and Calderon are dumps either immediately or in the summer.

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You can still buy picks, just not in last year's draft which was stacked. This year's draft is more top heavy. It is still amazing to me that we were able to trade up like we did.

 

[kabenac]

You can still buy picks, just not in last year's draft which was stacked. This year's draft is more top heavy. It is still amazing to me that we were able to trade up like we did.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I cant see them holding onto that nets pick. What for?? To get a head start on their rebuild??

Go ALL IN while you have Lebron and who knows, maybe you do a good enough job you convince him to stay.

Lebron is gone so yes having a potential top 3 pick is definitely something desirable to build around.

I believe Lebron came back for the fans and got them their championship and restored his name a bit. He is done there, his relationship with the owner and team is too toxic to stay.

They should do everything they can to win this year that does not severely hurt the rebuild. Giving up a pick that high is a bad idea for them and they will not do it, unless Lebron promises to stay but even then they might not trust him, nor will Lebron promise that.

I dont really see anything they can trade for anyways that will make them much better or good enough to win it all this year, besides most the trades suggested are not ones you give up that high of a pick for. PG13 is not worth a top 5 pick with his contract situation. Cousins is not worth a top 5 pick.

 

[LoPo]

You can still buy picks, just not in last year's draft which was stacked. This year's draft is more top heavy. It is still amazing to me that we were able to trade up like we did.

Two questions - have the Jazz ever bought a pick? And when was the last time a team bought a late first from another team?

I think the answers are never and probably not since we got into the latest CBA.

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[Ron Mexico]

Two questions - have the Jazz ever bought a pick? And when was the last time a team bought a late first from another team?

I think the answers are never and probably not since we got into the latest CBA.

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We bought the pick to get Gobert.

 

[LoPo]

I don’t care about Cleveland’s pick. Brooklyn pick and we’re in business but they’re not trading that for cap relief.

I'm a bigger fan of the Cleveland pick than I am Favors for just the rest of the season after the trade deadline.

The Cleveland pick could be used to dump Rubio in the summer if he doesn't work out over the course of the season. It could be used to get a better 1st in the future. It could be used to trade up. So many options that leaving Favors doesnt provide.

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[LoPo]

We bought the pick to get Gobert.

I stand corrected. They used #46 and cash to get #27 in 2013.

Last year, GS paid $3.5 million for the 38th pick to get Jordan Bell.

With the successes of late firsts like Gobert and Kuzma along with tighter and tighter wallets, I think 1st rounders won't be sold anymore.

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[Ron Mexico]

I stand corrected. They used #46 and cash to get #27 in 2013.

Last year, GS paid $3.5 million for the 38th pick to get Jordan Bell.

With the successes of late firsts like Gobert and Kuzma along with tighter and tighter wallets, I think 1st rounders won't be sold anymore.

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I guess we shall see. My guess is they will. Winning team would rather sell their first and pick up some cheaper non guaranteed 2nds when they dont feel there is a difference in players. In many drafts its a crap shoot, so you might as well get the 2nd rounder that you have more options with and they do not cost you salary cap space on a competing team where rookies dont help you win.

In weak drafts late 1st will still get sold, but I could be wrong.

 

[ONE LOVE]

Exum definitely not untouchable for me... not even close.

 

[LoPo]

Exum definitely not untouchable for me... not even close.

I think we have to have faith in Exum. He would seem to be the absolute best option next to Mitchell in the backcourt. He doesn't have to have the ball, is athletic, can attack the rim, and is another long, willing defender.

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[NUMBERICA]

I just want to point out that Exum hasn't played good basketball as evidenced by his, like, 5 PER.

So considering his sizable QO, upcoming free agency, how good he hasn't been, and that he's probably missing the whole season, we definitely don't have to have faith in Exum. That **** comes at a cost.

 

[ONE LOVE]

I think we have to have faith in Exum. He would seem to be the absolute best option next to Mitchell in the backcourt. He doesn't have to have the ball, is athletic, can attack the rim, and is another long, willing defender.

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Um.. not sure Exum is the 'absolute best option next to Mitchell'...


I see Mitchell like a Lillard type. Put the ball in his hand and let him create or go by himself to score. The 'absolute best option' to me is a Klay/McCollum type who are knock down 3pt shooter and can handle the ball some.


Exum's shooting is still suspect to me.