The Future: Who to Keep, at what price, and what it means for us

[freakazoid]

What holds? I put in the hold for Evans and we already extended Burks.

He's talking about the holds for exceptions. In order to use cap space, these exceptions must be renounced, with the exception of the room exception. All it means is that Utah can't use cap space and then use the MLE or a TPE or something. Basically, if you're talking about getting under the cap far enough to go after a significant FA, it's just assumed that the holds will be renounced. It doesn't change anything about what you've said so far.

 

[freakazoid]

We have over 400 minutes already, dont need more really.

You're assuming he's done developing and won't get any better. Judging by the contract Utah gave him, I'm guessing they disagree.

We could know our core in two weeks if Burks wasn't hurt.

Sorry, but that's nutty. Right now we know we have 3 keepers, but even those guys are tradable in the right deal, with the possible exception of Gobert. This whole talk of core this and core that has always been about people making assumptions as to players developing, as if it's a given. Giving Burks 2 more weeks won't tell us anything as to how he might develop over the next few years, and since he's not really tradable at the moment, I guess he's part of the "core" for now.

 

[Hantlers]

I don't know if there's anybody else like me, but fishon's endless ranting about Burks has actually made me like Burks less. Just a little, but, yeah.

You really are a petty, little, man.

 

[GVC]

I'd be looking at trading some combination of players not named Favors, Gobert, Hayward or Exum into a reasonably young physical wing defender who can shoot it.

 

[Dumb Bloke]

You're assuming he's done developing and won't get any better. Judging by the contract Utah gave him, I'm guessing they disagree.


Sorry, but that's nutty. Right now we know we have 3 keepers, but even those guys are tradable in the right deal, with the possible exception of Gobert. This whole talk of core this and core that has always been about people making assumptions as to players developing, as if it's a given. Giving Burks 2 more weeks won't tell us anything as to how he might develop over the next few years, and since he's not really tradable at the moment, I guess he's part of the "core" for now.

I dont see what your issue is. I said Burks could fit in better if changes to the starting lineup was made. You cant really argue that he fits right now tho. Its clear they suck with him in it.

Sure everyone is expendable but at some point you have to assemble something that works then stick with it. Right now thats Favors, Hayward, Kanter, and hopefully Exum. Burks does not fit unless potentially if one of those pieces change.

Why thats so nutty is because Burks signed an untradable contract?

 

[Stifle Tower]

Maybe DL surprises us with a trade. Jazz are ready to take that next step. Maybe there will be a vet guard available for the #8 pick plus other assets. The only thing I don't like about that type of scenario is you only have a player for 2-3 years. With a 1st-round draft pick, you control someone's rights for up to 8 years, with 4 of those being relatively cheap. But just think how good we'd be NOW if Utah had a decent PG.

I just don't see why some are so down on Burks? Why does he NOT fit with Favors, Hayward and Gobert? Oh wait, that was Kanter, not Gobert? And does a non-shooting/non-penetrating and/or non-making guard fit?

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

I'd be looking at trading some combination of players not named Favors, Gobert, Hayward or Exum into a reasonably young physical wing defender who can shoot it.

Names please.

 

[freakazoid]

Maybe there will be a vet guard available for the #8 pick plus other assets. The only thing I don't like about that type of scenario is you only have a player for 2-3 years. With a 1st-round draft pick, you control someone's rights for up to 8 years, with 4 of those being relatively cheap.

The importance of this can never be stressed enough on this board. This is the factor that the win-now at all costs people just don't understand. Building through the draft is easily the most important aspect of building a team in Utah.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

The importance of this can never be stressed enough on this board. This is the factor that the win-now at all costs people just don't understand. Building through the draft is easily the most important aspect of building a team in Utah.

This is true in the NFL too. Maybe re-up Kanter, have a kickass draft, and just stockpile talent and assets like the league's never seen.

 

[Jamezz]

The importance of this can never be stressed enough on this board. This is the factor that the win-now at all costs people just don't understand. Building through the draft is easily the most important aspect of building a team in Utah.

Yes it's important, but you can't only feed off of drafted players, at some point you have to find complimentary players to who you think are your main pieces elsewhere. There's a thin line between becoming a perennial ping pong ball team and a team that actually makes the jump into the fun part of the standings. You have to find a balance between building through the draft and establishing a winning culture. To me the latter is more important than climbing up a couple spots in the draft.

 

[freakazoid]

Yes it's important, but you can't only feed off of drafted players, at some point you have to find complimentary players to who you think are your main pieces elsewhere. There's a thin line between becoming a perennial ping pong ball team and a team that actually makes the jump into the fun part of the standings. You have to find a balance between building through the draft and establishing a winning culture. To me the latter is more important than climbing up a couple spots in the draft.

Your idea of balance is giving up on a rebuild after one year. Two bad years doesn't mean you are stuck in the lottery forever. Smart management is crucial regardless of how you build a team. All you have to do is look at the NY teams if you want to see where a win-now attitude can get you. Winning culture is all well and good, but it doesn't change mediocre players into good ones. That's basically what DL is talking about when he says no skipping steps. Trying to implement a winning culture with a team full of mediocre players can mean missing out on the right player. Personally, I'll gladly put up with a few bad years for the team to be built the right way, rather than trying to be the Knicks or Nets, or some treadmill team.
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If we're being honest, I'm guessing by your many posts on the subject, you don't care one bit about our next draft pick, and are only concerned with winning now. I can remember when the majority of this board wanted to trade the NY pick we drafted Hayward with, and I was getting the same kind of responses when I argued for keeping the pick. Had the win-now crowd gotten their way, that pick would have been sold low and Gordo would be playing somewhere else. Luckily for us, KOC wasn't as short-sighted as so many fans.
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Lastly, for anyone who is worried about Utah becoming a perennial lottery team, you won't have to worry about it after this year. This is the last year for a while Utah will have a shot at a decent pick, and with Rudy tearing it up, we might already be too good, which is fine. When you have a player break out the way Rudy has, it's time take the next step in rebuilding. Just the same, make no mistake about it, this last high draft pick is important to building the team, no matter how little fans value draft picks and rookies.

 

[Jamezz]

If we're being honest, I'm guessing by your many posts on the subject, you don't care one bit about our next draft pick, and are only concerned with winning now. I can remember when the majority of this board wanted to trade the NY pick we drafted Hayward with, and I was getting the same kind of responses when I argued for keeping the pick. Had the win-now crowd gotten their way, that pick would have been sold low and Gordo would be playing somewhere else. Luckily for us, KOC wasn't as short-sighted as so many fans.

Honestly, you couldn't be any closer to the truth. I don't care if we pick 20th, 15th, 10th or 1st for that matter, any more than I care about picking smart and in correlation to the kind of team we want to set up. Spot a player like Carmelo Anthony, 3rd pick. Yes Lebron James was the 1st pick in that draft but 1) It was the Cavaliers 2) You have to be extremely lucky to get the 1st pick and 3) You really have to suck big balls the previous year to increase your chances of getting it. Now would you say that Carmelo has really been a difference maker as to making a team a contender? I wouldn't think so.

Now we have a 3rd pick as well, in Derrick Favors, and just now we're starting to see what he can bring to the table, hopefully on a regular basis. Same draft when Hayward was picked. Hey Paul George was picked next, Eric Bledsoe was 18th, a player we'd also be thrilled to have. In that case you just build the team a different way. Where were Stockton and Malone picked for that matter? Again, I'll be thrilled on draft night if we happen to have a very high pick, but not in expense of causing players not to be thrilled by being picked by a team that won't hesitate in sending you away if they consider that yes you're a good player, but we want MORE. I'm curious, do you approve of the 76ers' strategy? Do you think that's even bearable for the fans? I mean where do you draw the line my friend?