The Irrational Covid

[Ron Mexico]

Masks didn't "fail" because they never had a chance to succeed. The CDC finished their study and the number was 1.5% reduction.

CDC: Face masks don’t prevent COVID-19, study finds masks have negligible impact on coronavirus numbers

The CDC has admitted face masks do little to prevent the spread of COVID-19 amid mounting pressure to lift mask mandates across the U.S. In a new study, the CDC found face masks have had a negligible impact on coronavirus numbers, which doesn't exceed statistic margins of error.

www.oann.com

We should still wear one, but covids damage was always going to be big here short of a Chinese level lock you in your home shutdown. I said this 9 months ago.
As for the historic low flu, I would attribute that more to complete shutdown of massive public gatherings (basketball, football, concerts).
The UK is reporting zero flu cases to date, that's almost unbelievable.

Why would you link to that garbage article when you could take 2 seconds and click on the actual study with good unbiased information in it? That poor news/opinion article does not represent the study well at all. If this is the type of "news" you read I would highly suggest finding a better source, there are many.

Association of State-Issued Mask Mandates and Allowing ...

This report describes changes in COVID-19 case and death growth ...

www.cdc.gov

China only did a home shut you in lockdown in Wuhan where it was obviously really bad. I have been in China the entire time and have not had any home lockdown quarantine, nor have the vast majority of people. The most extreme was one city I was in closed indoor dining and gatherings, although a lot of cities never did that like Beijing, they only suggested it. When I moved back to Beijing they asked me to do a quarantine at home. I was allowed to walk around outside in the block the complex was in and order food and other things. After that I was given a pass that got me into the apartment complex and near by restaurants and businesses. The reason China stopped the spread is because they closed the borders and travel within China where outbreaks were. I would have to do a 3 week quarantine if I left the country and returned. If I went to a high risk area in China then I would have to do a hotel quarantine for 2 weeks. People also wore their masks here. They also did very good contact tracing. Businesses were asked to track their customers. When I went to a restaurant the asked for my phone number and name in case anyone there had an outbreak, those people who were in close contact were asked to do a hotel quarantine for 2 weeks and take multiple tests. Ive said it before, China handled the outbreak very poorly early by not releasing information and actively suppressing information about the outbreak in Wuhan. A lot of that was local leaders trying to save face, but I am sure the central government wanted to know more before telling people, which is wrong. But since then they have done the correct steps to stop the spread that more countries should and many have.

I think like the studies show, masks definitely help but they aren't going to stop the outbreak. They are very cheap and very easy to wear with no bad effects, so why not wear one in public indoors near people? But the biggest factor is restricted travel and quarantine people who have. To date USA has not closed the border except to China, which is pretty sad since that is based on risk prevention but politics. Also no USA citizens were ever required to quarantine on return from high risks areas, that was a bad decision and probably still is. Look at what Australia has done.

 

[Avery]

Linking to articles from Oann is a non-starter. I mean, journalism has bias, but Oann so overtly swims in it that they could tell me the sky is blue and I wouldn’t believe them.

 

[Red]

Did CDC's misguided mask advice drive up COVID death toll for health workers?

New studies suggest that the highest overall risk of infection was among the front-line workers—many of them workers of color—who spent the most time with patients earlier in their illness and in sub-par protective gear, not those working in the COVID ICU.

www.modernhealthcare.com

 

[Red]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/03/how-the-west-lost-covid-19.html

 

[One Brow]

Masks didn't "fail" because they never had a chance to succeed. The CDC finished their study and the number was 1.5% reduction.

CDC: Face masks don’t prevent COVID-19, study finds masks have negligible impact on coronavirus numbers

The CDC has admitted face masks do little to prevent the spread of COVID-19 amid mounting pressure to lift mask mandates across the U.S. In a new study, the CDC found face masks have had a negligible impact on coronavirus numbers, which doesn't exceed statistic margins of error.

www.oann.com

We should still wear one, but covids damage was always going to be big here short of a Chinese level lock you in your home shutdown. I said this 9 months ago.
As for the historic low flu, I would attribute that more to complete shutdown of massive public gatherings (basketball, football, concerts).
The UK is reporting zero flu cases to date, that's almost unbelievable.

COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE

This historical page is not up to date. Find the latest on COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

I trust the CDC to say what it means, rather than rely on the highly biased, cherry-picked results of OANN.

What's unbelievable is the notion that two diseases are spread the same way, yet one has been severely hampered and the other untouched by the same preventative measures. Try to think more critically.

 

[Red]

Yeah 100 bucks per gram is pretty cheap round here...

I trust the CDC to say what it means, rather than rely on the highly biased, cherry-picked results of OANN.

The CDC recommends not to use NIOSH approved N95 masks, saying they are needed by front line health care workers.

I’m sure they are, but one year ago, after deciding the pandemic might worsen considerably in the Winter of 2020-2021, I ordered a box of CDC approved, genuine, N95 masks. I wanted the best mask available when I entered places like the super market. I have both age and 3 comorbidities going against me, so it seemed like a good idea.

It took 3 months for the masks to arrive, NY manufacturer. I put them aside and stayed with the surgical masks until the surge in RI was among the worst in the nation. Then I began wearing one inside any and all public establishments.

I pretty much went back to using the common blue surgical mask, after my first Moderna shot. And since the CDC emphasized saving N95 masks for front line health care workers, I decided not to wear an N95 to a doctor’s office, as I would feel like I was rubbing it in, if they are that hard to get. They were not cheap, but I may donate them to my local hospital once I’m fully vaccinated.

 

[babe]

Masks didn't "fail" because they never had a chance to succeed. The CDC finished their study and the number was 1.5% reduction.

CDC: Face masks don’t prevent COVID-19, study finds masks have negligible impact on coronavirus numbers

The CDC has admitted face masks do little to prevent the spread of COVID-19 amid mounting pressure to lift mask mandates across the U.S. In a new study, the CDC found face masks have had a negligible impact on coronavirus numbers, which doesn't exceed statistic margins of error.

www.oann.com

We should still wear one, but covids damage was always going to be big here short of a Chinese level lock you in your home shutdown. I said this 9 months ago.
As for the historic low flu, I would attribute that more to complete shutdown of massive public gatherings (basketball, football, concerts).
The UK is reporting zero flu cases to date, that's almost unbelievable.

I've heard this, too. Important to have this on the table.

7. The human condition failed

I’ve never seen a time where people have ignored their largely Christian roots and only ask what’s in it for them then their flock. Give us your tired, your weak and your poor, but only if they look right and from the right places.

Humans will always be a fractured species, but one can only wonder if the pandemic would have lasted a month or two if we could have lived within ourselves and the good of others instead of our own self-righteousness.

I suppose the progressive movement historically has been in some respects both eugenicist( racist actually() and intolerant of humanity (fascist or elitist) in some respects, but it is really great to have your post here admitting the human condition and more or less realizing we will always somehow find ways to be human or imperfect in regard to any ideals we can put to paper.
Christianity per the reported teachings of Jesus places the possibility and responsibility for human perfection beyond practical reach but then claims the grace of God and the atonement of Jesus can bring us "home" to some perfect end, and states that on our own we will fail. Not only fail, but be greatly persecuted for believing or trying to follow Jesus. Some say believers are "sheep for the slaughter all the day long, until the end comes with Jesus' return.

being from a Mormon root, it seems to me that Mormonism is actually a brand of socialism with an ideal of communal perfection under the guidance of a benevolent authority claiming direction from God. But in practice, Mormonism signed on to the progressive movement over a hundred years ago, and is actually supportive of it.

But Mormons today are still all over the map in terms of political thinking. Some undoubtedly are Marxists, too.

But your statement here stands true writ large. And it's not just politicians or medical providers that fail. It is indeed everyone.

Here's to the effort to cut us some slack and love us all anyway.

 

[babe]

COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE

This historical page is not up to date. Find the latest on COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

I trust the CDC to say what it means, rather than rely on the highly biased, cherry-picked results of OANN.

What's unbelievable is the notion that two diseases are spread the same way, yet one has been severely hampered and the other untouched by the same preventative measures. Try to think more critically.

I agree with the analysis of the OANN link. I don't go to that source for anything. There have always been a portion of the conservatives who are just too stupid for words...... well some portions of every political faction, let's say.

I agree that masks can be effective, in any design or material, to some extent, and should be worn in all close encounters human to human or in closed spaces with poor HVAC design. But they fail because we fail to properly clean them, replace them, dispose of them in a timely manner. Coming home from a spreader event, and taking them off and putting them on the kitchen table, we go wash our hands and face and sit down to eat. and transfer to load of virus from the table to our face in unthinking comfort. That sort of thing. And then the mandates that require us to stay indoors and not walk alone around the block in the sunshine at all, or use a mask to do so, puts us in a sort of trance of unthinking habit that leads to exposures we could avoid if we were thoughtful about the circumstances.

Still no way to save us from our own stupidity at times.

The human condition will always involve human inconsistency, human weakness, human corruption, human ignorance, human weariness, human bias, human lunacy, human credulity....... well, an infinity of imperfections or deplorable characters.

But it's not just republicans who are human.

 

[babe]

I agree with the analysis of the OANN link. I don't go to that source for anything. There have always been a portion of the conservatives who are just too stupid for words...... well some portions of every political faction, let's say.

I agree that masks can be effective, in any design or material, to some extent, and should be worn in all close encounters human to human or in closed spaces with poor HVAC design. But they fail because we fail to properly clean them, replace them, dispose of them in a timely manner. Coming home from a spreader event, and taking them off and putting them on the kitchen table, we go wash our hands and face and sit down to eat. and transfer to load of virus from the table to our face in unthinking comfort. That sort of thing. And then the mandates that require us to stay indoors and not walk alone around the block in the sunshine at all, or use a mask to do so, puts us in a sort of trance of unthinking habit that leads to exposures we could avoid if we were thoughtful about the circumstances.

Still no way to save us from our own stupidity at times.

I agree with the analysis of the OANN link. I don't go to that source for anything. There have always been a portion of the conservatives who are just too stupid for words...... well some portions of every political faction, let's say.

I agree that masks can be effective, in any design or material, to some extent, and should be worn in all close encounters human to human or in closed spaces with poor HVAC design. But they fail because we fail to properly clean them, replace them, dispose of them in a timely manner. Coming home from a spreader event, and taking them off and putting them on the kitchen table, we go wash our hands and face and sit down to eat. and transfer to load of virus from the table to our face in unthinking comfort. That sort of thing. And then the mandates that require us to stay indoors and not walk alone around the block in the sunshine at all, or use a mask to do so, puts us in a sort of trance of unthinking habit that leads to exposures we could avoid if we were thoughtful about the circumstances.

Still no way to save us from our own stupidity at times.

The human condition will always involve human inconsistency, human weakness, human corruption, human ignorance, human weariness, human bias, human lunacy, human credulity....... well, an infinity of imperfections or deplorable characters.

But it's not just republicans who are human.

Speaking of HVAC systems, Mark Levin has been exploding against teachers' unions' demands for HVAC fixes. He apparently thinks it's not an issue. But the worst part of it is the unions' and school managers' misunderstanding of the problem, and the engineers with their delight in replacing equipment that doesn't need to be replaced. To increase air flows or change directions of air flows.

The systems need the installation, in-line...... in some segment of the ductworks, electrostatic filters that will destroy the virus as it passes, and remove the particles from the air. And produce a light ozone presence, something like the smell of a thunderstorm. Ozone actually has no threshold biologically, it acts completely and exhaustively on first contact with any biological surface. Like chlorine in the swimming pool, we tolerate low levels per OSHA specifications because we have reserves of unsaturated oils and biological molecules, and will not be killed by a light concentration for several hours a day. We do need to eat well to keep up our nutrition, that's all. But the virus is killed by those low concentrations, absolutely and quantitatively, totally. With that kind of air, the masks are actually not even needed unless we are say kissing someone with the virus.

This kind of installation in the HVAC is a few thousand dollars for even large buildings, compared to hundreds of thousands of dollars to totally redesign and reinstall the systems.

So when it comes to stupid, the teachers and the engineers are far mare stupid than Mark Levin.

 

[babe]

Why would you link to that garbage article when you could take 2 seconds and click on the actual study with good unbiased information in it? That poor news/opinion article does not represent the study well at all. If this is the type of "news" you read I would highly suggest finding a better source, there are many.

Association of State-Issued Mask Mandates and Allowing ...

This report describes changes in COVID-19 case and death growth ...

www.cdc.gov

China only did a home shut you in lockdown in Wuhan where it was obviously really bad. I have been in China the entire time and have not had any home lockdown quarantine, nor have the vast majority of people. The most extreme was one city I was in closed indoor dining and gatherings, although a lot of cities never did that like Beijing, they only suggested it. When I moved back to Beijing they asked me to do a quarantine at home. I was allowed to walk around outside in the block the complex was in and order food and other things. After that I was given a pass that got me into the apartment complex and near by restaurants and businesses. The reason China stopped the spread is because they closed the borders and travel within China where outbreaks were. I would have to do a 3 week quarantine if I left the country and returned. If I went to a high risk area in China then I would have to do a hotel quarantine for 2 weeks. People also wore their masks here. They also did very good contact tracing. Businesses were asked to track their customers. When I went to a restaurant the asked for my phone number and name in case anyone there had an outbreak, those people who were in close contact were asked to do a hotel quarantine for 2 weeks and take multiple tests. Ive said it before, China handled the outbreak very poorly early by not releasing information and actively suppressing information about the outbreak in Wuhan. A lot of that was local leaders trying to save face, but I am sure the central government wanted to know more before telling people, which is wrong. But since then they have done the correct steps to stop the spread that more countries should and many have.

I think like the studies show, masks definitely help but they aren't going to stop the outbreak. They are very cheap and very easy to wear with no bad effects, so why not wear one in public indoors near people? But the biggest factor is restricted travel and quarantine people who have. To date USA has not closed the border except to China, which is pretty sad since that is based on risk prevention but politics. Also no USA citizens were ever required to quarantine on return from high risks areas, that was a bad decision and probably still is. Look at what Australia has done.

This is perhaps the best post yet in this thread. I absolutely applaud you for this contribution. It is informative and in all respects well-founded.

 

[Jazz4ever]

COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE

This historical page is not up to date. Find the latest on COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

I trust the CDC to say what it means, rather than rely on the highly biased, cherry-picked results of OANN.

What's unbelievable is the notion that two diseases are spread the same way, yet one has been severely hampered and the other untouched by the same preventative measures. Try to think more critically.

I only linked it from OANN because you sure as hell wouldn't see that study on any liberal owned platform. Back to masks though, there could be a realm of possibilities here. To assume masks are the main reason for the historic low flu just doesn't add up. Some things we have to ask.

1. Does Covid overtake and kill the flu if both present at the same time? Covid was rampant before the flu season got under way, so seems possible.
2. Flu cases are being called Covid if there are even a few Covid antibodies found.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Wow. What an amazing thread.