I forgot to mention that the "win title within' first 7 ys theory" can be traced back to about 1991. Before there were players that won almost imediatelly.
And the number of teams with cap space is a direct result of shorter contracts as well.
The Jazz rebuild
- Thread starter @nsanba
- Start date
I forgot to mention that the "win title within' first 7 ys theory" can be traced back to about 1991. Before there were players that won almost imediatelly.
And the number of teams with cap space is a direct result of shorter contracts as well.
framer
Well-Known Member
Couple of things:
1. Signing players to fair contracts , even if they are expensive, is a vital part of the rebuild. Players on fair contracts can be traded. Hayward and Favors could be traded tomorrow to multiple teams. Burks may be an overpay, but I think it will turn out to be slight.
2. Players that are one year away from RFA (Kanter) are VERY tradable because the receiving team knows they can keep them for longer than the rest of the year. Players that will be UFA are just about untradeable other than as cap relief. If you wanted to trade Jeff and Sap it needed to be two years before they went UFA.
3. All of the rumored deals for Sapp were bunk. Atlanta wasn't even discussed and they are the ones who signed Sap on the cheap. If all of the teams that had rumored interest in him had ACTUALLY been interested in him, they would have signed him. Likely they wanted Sap plus OTHER considerations.
4. I'm OK if Burke develops as a backup 1. We got him late lottery in a bad draft. That is where you find backup 1's.
5. There will come a point where we will need to make a trade of some sort this year to spark the team. I love the development, but at some point it will be swallowed up by despair and indifference. The coaches need to be less afraid of scuffing a brand new Exum by actually taking him out of the package once in a while. But, yeah, having him start is a ticket to Townesville. . .
1. Signing players to fair contracts , even if they are expensive, is a vital part of the rebuild. Players on fair contracts can be traded. Hayward and Favors could be traded tomorrow to multiple teams. Burks may be an overpay, but I think it will turn out to be slight.
2. Players that are one year away from RFA (Kanter) are VERY tradable because the receiving team knows they can keep them for longer than the rest of the year. Players that will be UFA are just about untradeable other than as cap relief. If you wanted to trade Jeff and Sap it needed to be two years before they went UFA.
3. All of the rumored deals for Sapp were bunk. Atlanta wasn't even discussed and they are the ones who signed Sap on the cheap. If all of the teams that had rumored interest in him had ACTUALLY been interested in him, they would have signed him. Likely they wanted Sap plus OTHER considerations.
4. I'm OK if Burke develops as a backup 1. We got him late lottery in a bad draft. That is where you find backup 1's.
5. There will come a point where we will need to make a trade of some sort this year to spark the team. I love the development, but at some point it will be swallowed up by despair and indifference. The coaches need to be less afraid of scuffing a brand new Exum by actually taking him out of the package once in a while. But, yeah, having him start is a ticket to Townesville. . .
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Wasn't necessarily trying to discount your idea, I just don't see it as something that has affected Utah, and my reason for bringing up the changes in the CBA was to address the complaints about the FO. Not only that, but aren't you assuming all FAs automatically leave as soon as they become unrestricted? Seems to me that you don't really need to win in that window, you just need to get good enough to convince your UFAs to re-sign. Potential problem, maybe, but certainly not automatic, and not something that has affected us yet.
SojoDave
Well-Known Member
This is just my opinion, but I think DL was the one who convinced the Millers that going the youth movement was the better route for rebuilding than chasing the 8th seed every year. I think once DL got the green light on going young, it changed the strategy. My biggest concern is that if you go young, you better not have the wrong players. If we tied our wagon to the wrong players, where does that leave us? We’ve been in asset accumulation mode since DL took over and eventually you need to cash you chips in on a big move.
We are at the point in our rebuild where many GM’s have panicked. They make a trade to bring in a vet to try and plug the holes on a team. This just extends the bleeding and doesn’t help in the long run. I have faith in DL’s plan and even though it’s going to be a rough ride, eventually there may be light at the end of our dark tunnel. Let’s just hope it’s not an oncoming train…
We are at the point in our rebuild where many GM’s have panicked. They make a trade to bring in a vet to try and plug the holes on a team. This just extends the bleeding and doesn’t help in the long run. I have faith in DL’s plan and even though it’s going to be a rough ride, eventually there may be light at the end of our dark tunnel. Let’s just hope it’s not an oncoming train…
framer
Well-Known Member
This is just my opinion, but I think DL was the one who convinced the Millers that going the youth movement was the better route for rebuilding than chasing the 8th seed every year. I think once DL got the green light on going young, it changed the strategy. My biggest concern is that if you go young, you better not have the wrong players. If we tied our wagon to the wrong players, where does that leave us? We’ve been in asset accumulation mode since DL took over and eventually you need to cash you chips in on a big move.
We are at the point in our rebuild where many GM’s have panicked. They make a trade to bring in a vet to try and plug the holes on a team. This just extends the bleeding and doesn’t help in the long run. I have faith in DL’s plan and even though it’s going to be a rough ride, eventually there may be light at the end of our dark tunnel. Let’s just hope it’s not an oncoming train…
This all pretty much depends upon Exum. If he is legit, we are in a good place. If he is a bust, we are kind of screwed unless we get lucky somewhere else. . .
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
It is not just your opinion. If you go back to the DN or Trib (or other sources) you will read that the FO was split. In the week of the trade, it was reported the Jazz were still in conversations with Millsap and his agent. Carroll was unsigned; Foye was unsigned. We know Big Al was never a consideration; he moved almost immediately after the season ended. As for trades and "getting something back" it irritates me to no end when people toss this about. As framer said, what is the market for a guy who will be an UFA? It has to be a playoff team. Any contender is NOT going to send back a rotation player of value. So you a) have to find a playoff team needing a center; b) find one with equal expiring contracts to send out in exchange. I looked at every team and only saw maybe 2-3 possibilities. As for Millsap, there was still internal discussion about keeping him up until the July trade, so no trade was ever going to be made at the deadline.
I doubt DL will panic. He has been all about "not skipping steps." I'm sure he'll listen to offers, but we're in position to draft anywhere from 1-8. It will be important to know exactly where that pick lands, for us and for any potential trading partner. He's also made sure we have cap space in 2015 to sign a significant FA (and maybe 2 depending on whether or not we keep Kanter). He's not going to muck that up - unless an all-star caliber player can be had.We are at the point in our rebuild where many GM’s have panicked. They make a trade to bring in a vet to try and plug the holes on a team. This just extends the bleeding and doesn’t help in the long run. I have faith in DL’s plan and even though it’s going to be a rough ride, eventually there may be light at the end of our dark tunnel. Let’s just hope it’s not an oncoming train…
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Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
The Jazz are fine. They have some nice pieces in Hayward, Exum and Favors, Burks is at least a solid 6th man, and Gobert and Hood both look like they will turn into (at the very least) good reserves. They need to grab the best player they can in the draft, see what the market bears out for Kanter and decide what (if any) future Trey Burke has in Utah. If they can get a solid wing defender like K. J. McDaniels or DeMarre Carroll and then cash in their many assets for a #1 scoring vet, they should have a solid roster. I think that they're going to count on Exum and Gobert developing and then see where that leaves them next year after they add 2-3 new players to bolster the offense, defense and bench.
Farmer.Tan
Well-Known Member
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
The Jazz are in year 2 of their full on rebuild, and doing so with an incredibly young team and a rookie coach. I'm an optimist, but this is pretty much what I was expecting. I'm curious to see at what point Gobert, Exum and/or Hood find their way into the starting lineup (just to see), but I'm not upset with the gameplan so far. Play the Core 5 together and let the (super) young players like Exum, Gobert and Hood all develop with less minutes off the bench. The Jazz are still at least two pieces away from making any sort of impact.
Before you all throw in the towel, just remember that the Jazz have better assets, better young players AND a better cap situation than the Rockets did 4 years ago, and somehow Houston managed to put together a roster of Lin (7/12), Asik (7/12) Harden (10/12), Beverly (7/13), Parsons (2011 Draft - 2nd round) and Howard (7/13). All except Parsons were acquired through trades and free agency after the start of the 2012 offseason, AND they nearly had the cap room to add another max player this past offseason.
It's not the manner that I'd have taken for building a championship team, but there's moves to be made for an aggressive GM. The Jazz have some good young talent that are all learning how to play together and they are in a great shape to add to their current roster through good cap management and a boatload of assets.
Before you all throw in the towel, just remember that the Jazz have better assets, better young players AND a better cap situation than the Rockets did 4 years ago, and somehow Houston managed to put together a roster of Lin (7/12), Asik (7/12) Harden (10/12), Beverly (7/13), Parsons (2011 Draft - 2nd round) and Howard (7/13). All except Parsons were acquired through trades and free agency after the start of the 2012 offseason, AND they nearly had the cap room to add another max player this past offseason.
It's not the manner that I'd have taken for building a championship team, but there's moves to be made for an aggressive GM. The Jazz have some good young talent that are all learning how to play together and they are in a great shape to add to their current roster through good cap management and a boatload of assets.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Mistakes
Not matching on Mathews
Not trading Al and Millsap, or keep Millsap.
Not tanking sooner
Hayward, Mathews, and Millsap would be nice right now.
Obviously, keeping Mathews and Millsap would change a lot of things, and tanking doesn't fit in that picture, but mistakes none the less.
I always felt that we were riding the fence. Either tank and get it over with or start trading picks for players and making other trades and signings to get you somewhere.
Good Decisions
Drafting Hayward, Gobert.....
Conclusions, draft better.
Not matching on Mathews
Not trading Al and Millsap, or keep Millsap.
Not tanking sooner
Hayward, Mathews, and Millsap would be nice right now.
Obviously, keeping Mathews and Millsap would change a lot of things, and tanking doesn't fit in that picture, but mistakes none the less.
I always felt that we were riding the fence. Either tank and get it over with or start trading picks for players and making other trades and signings to get you somewhere.
Good Decisions
Drafting Hayward, Gobert.....
Conclusions, draft better.
GVC
Well-Known Member
It absolutely does not have to be a playoff team. It can also be a team that won't have the cap space to sign the player they're acquiring. That is, the Bird rights are valuable for teams over the cap. Even if the Jazz only got second round picks for them, they'd be following the strategy you've been advocating: Losing more games to improve their own draft position AND acquiring more picks that can potentially be used to acquire the necessary superstar.