The Knicks are at the Cross Section of Hope and Desperation

[Handlogten's Heros]

Not that he is the same player... but Deni would do some of the stuff we miss from Ingles. If we nabbed an extra pick somewhere I'd consider putting it in the deal for him. If he moves from 32% from 3 into the 38% range he's about as perfect a fit as you could find for what we need.

 

[LoPo]

idk if he ever wins the whole enchilada. As has been discussed here, offensively challenged centers haven't been the centerpiece of championship teams. Likewise not many high-volume scorers that refused to play any defense at all have lead their teams to championships either. The vast majority of championship teams have strong 2-way centerpiece players, who take pride in shutting people down almost as much as scoring in bunches. Mitchell might go the AI route and get a finals appearance, but I have a hard time seeing him be the main cog in a championship team, especially the way he let Brunson et al tea-bag all over him.

Average and sometimes bad defense is not "refused to play any defense". A couple clips isn't some validation of this lying narrative going around.

Steph Curry plays average defense at best but he's surrounded by phenomenal defenders. Chauncy Billups was surrounded by amazing defenders. Kyrie Irving. Etc.

Donovan Mitchell wasn't guarding Brunson in that series. Occasionally, Don got stuck on Brunson and Brunson did well. You know who else got stuck on Brunson and Brunson did well? You want me to show some clips of that?

 

[LoPo]

I'm pretty sure NY would want no part of Conley after the Kemba experience. They likely want to be out of the Fournier business too, but I think they'd target something different. Contracts are functionally the same length.

I think the best chance at a solid return in a Conley deal are deals with Washington, LAC, and maybe Detroit (assuming they miss on Brunson, Jones, Ant Simons)

Yep. Conley to NY is really redundant with Rose, Quickley, and Kemba there. And we don't want those guys in return.

Conley works best at:

Clippers
Lakers
Detroit
Washington
Atlanta (bench)

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Average and sometimes bad defense is not "refused to play any defense". A couple clips isn't some validation of this lying narrative going around.

Steph Curry plays average defense at best but he's surrounded by phenomenal defenders. Chauncy Billups was surrounded by amazing defenders. Kyrie Irving. Etc.

Donovan Mitchell wasn't guarding Brunson in that series. Occasionally, Don got stuck on Brunson and Brunson did well. You know who else got stuck on Brunson and Brunson did well? You want me to show some clips of that?

Steph has a 107 rating these season, and was one of the best if not the best on the team with steals.

Donovan's defensive rating this year is a mind numbing 111. He should be a much better defender than Curry, yet the numbers show he is much worse. As good as Don is on offense, his poor defense nullifies most of it.

Everyone knows he is capable, he just doesn't make the effort.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yep. Conley to NY is really redundant with Rose, Quickley, and Kemba there. And we don't want those guys in return.

Conley works best at:

Clippers
Lakers
Detroit
Washington
Atlanta (bench)

If we can get the Deni deal done I start to feel better about keeping Rudy or also doing a Rudy deal. I just think he makes so much sense.

Like the Atlanta Rudy trade... say it gives you Collins/Capela and stuff... Collins really can't play small ball 5 unless he has some wings that help... Deni can do that... having Capela allows you to go big when you need to. Deni's passing helps supplement Collins and Donovan's struggles there.

Charlotte deal the same... PJ Washington isn't going to be great as small ball 5 for extended periods without guys like Deni.

He'd fit with the current roster too... having Donovan, KCP, Deni, Bogey, Rudy feels like it could be solid.

I just see the guy as a great pivot piece that allows us to do a lot of things. If we do a Rudy deal we need to add some draft capital into a Conley to Washington deal and get Deni.

 

[LoPo]

Steph has a 107 rating these season, and was one of the best if not the best on the team with steals.

Donovan's defensive rating this year is a mind numbing 111. He should be a much better defender than Curry, yet the numbers show he is much worse. As good as Don is on offense, his poor defense nullifies most of it.

Everyone knows he is capable, he just doesn't make the effort.

Steph gets to play with some of the best perimeter defenders in the entire league. He guards the other team's worst offensive threat. He gets to play the passing lanes. And Donovan Mitchell averaged more steals per game than Steph.

Good perimeter defenders matter. Good teammates matter. We simply do not have a great perimeter defender on this team. Not one.

It's not about effort. Sure, he takes some plays off. But so does Steph.

Our defensive philosophy gets absolutely abused in the playoffs. This isn't an outlier. When you got guys like Brunson, Mann and Kleber lighting it up. It ain't on one person. If Don was playing on GS, I guarantee you that **** wouldn't be happening.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Steph has a 107 rating these season, and was one of the best if not the best on the team with steals.

Donovan's defensive rating this year is a mind numbing 111. He should be a much better defender than Curry, yet the numbers show he is much worse. As good as Don is on offense, his poor defense nullifies most of it.

Everyone knows he is capable, he just doesn't make the effort.

I've been thinking... it might be partly a BBIQ thing in addition to wavering commitment. Steph is super committed but also just a smart player... maybe that is part of the disconnect.

Donovan's effort could go up a lot for sure... I just wonder if physically he is capable but the mind ain't quite there. His other struggles are with shot selection and passing at times... so it would be consistent with his issues there.

 

[LoPo]

If we can get the Deni deal done I start to feel better about keeping Rudy or also doing a Rudy deal. I just think he makes so much sense.

Like the Atlanta Rudy trade... say it gives you Collins/Capela and stuff... Collins really can't play small ball 5 unless he has some wings that help... Deni can do that... having Capela allows you to go big when you need to. Deni's passing helps supplement Collins and Donovan's struggles there.

Charlotte deal the same... PJ Washington isn't going to be great as small ball 5 for extended periods without guys like Deni.

He'd fit with the current roster too... having Donovan, KCP, Deni, Bogey, Rudy feels like it could be solid.

I just see the guy as a great pivot piece that allows us to do a lot of things. If we do a Rudy deal we need to add some draft capital into a Conley to Washington deal and get Deni.

I'm 100% on board with your Deni concept. It's a great idea, and one that I think Washington considers to appease Beal.

And I'm a big fan of KCP. He's flawed offensively, but he plays great defense and he plays with passion. We need that.

 

[LogGrad98]

Average and sometimes bad defense is not "refused to play any defense". A couple clips isn't some validation of this lying narrative going around.

Steph Curry plays average defense at best but he's surrounded by phenomenal defenders. Chauncy Billups was surrounded by amazing defenders. Kyrie Irving. Etc.

Donovan Mitchell wasn't guarding Brunson in that series. Occasionally, Don got stuck on Brunson and Brunson did well. You know who else got stuck on Brunson and Brunson did well? You want me to show some clips of that?

We've already established our entire perimeter D sucks balls. Mitchell owns part of that too. And I watched every game, and saw exactly the level of effort he gave on defense. That is what I'm basing it on. Of course he wasn't guarding Brunson, we don't give him the tough defensive assignments. He's not Booker. You apparently just watched some "clips" and made your judgment from there.

 

[hgb]

Also, if I were Miami then I would be calling for Donovan. I think he compliments Butler really well. Plus we have D. Wade to help fleece them.

Not a bad idea, but for what? Herro is an obvious piece, but what else? Bam?

 

[LoPo]

We've already established our entire perimeter D sucks balls. Mitchell owns part of that too. And I watched every game, and saw exactly the level of effort he gave on defense. That is what I'm basing it on. Of course he wasn't guarding Brunson, we don't give him the tough defensive assignments. He's not Booker. You apparently just watched some "clips" and made your judgment from there.

Lol. Booker doesn't get the assignments either. Because playoff basketball has so many switches, everybody will get an individual matchup from time to time. But on "matchups", Booker ain't getting Doncic on the regular. C'mon.

I thought Donovan played extremely hard the last 3 games. He was trying really hard. That doesn't mean he played great, but he was trying hard. The effort bit just isn't true.

 

[hgb]

It's not about effort. Sure, he takes some plays off. But so does Steph.

I don't generally think you have bad takes, and I overall often like your ideas about potential futures of this team, but TBH, I disagree on this. Donovan has made himself a target on defense, like the Lukas and Carmelos of the league, and I _definitely_ think this is effort. He has all the tools to be a decent defender, but he _isn't_. He sucks. He needs to step up his defensive game, or be a Stephon Marbury. It's very much about effort, in my mind. It's like that guy (can't remember right now) who said "nobody pays anyone no money to play defense", and he needs to rethink.