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The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

Wrong.

The negative around Harden/Doncic is that they have to the 100% vocal point of the offense at all times or they aren't nearly as effective. Conditioning is a BS excuse for lack of will/desire to compete on both ends for entire games.

Garden and Luka have the same desire to win, it just has to be 100% on their terms.
Are you disputing that Harden isnt labeled as a playoff choker? A lot of experts, analysts and former players have also publicly questionned his desire to win which is easy to prove. He basically posted a long post last year to defend that where he highlighted how he will take less money so Morey can get the guys they need to win, and how he wants to win in Philadelphia in particular. What happened a year later?

I would love to read some expert assessments why Doncic doesnt play "winning basketball". In fact I can prove this is false with ease. When I searched "Luka Doncic doesnt play winning baskeball" I found exactly one talking head who has made such a statement.

Rob Parker. Case closed.
 
Jokic went from a really good player to best player in the NBA by getting in a little better shape and learning how to be effective on defense. I think that would be much more difficult for a guard, but Luka is a huge guard and has the potential to be a much better defender.

That said, I'll reiterate that I'm not personally on the Luka to the Jazz train.
 
Luka needs to cut down in his whining and getting disctracted, which is not hard to imagine happening with more age and maturity. He has recognized this problem.
He also needs to be in better shape and up his defensive effort. He has also reognized both of these things, and looks to be in better shape now than he has been before.

To bury him as a guy who cannot win is insane, after already being in the WCF once with a pretty meh roster and winning in Europe before he ever came here (Euroleague champion and MVP).
 
Jokic went from a really good player to best player in the NBA by getting in a little better shape and learning how to be effective on defense. I think that would be much more difficult for a guard, but Luka is a huge guard and has the potential to be a much better defender.

That said, I'll reiterate that I'm not personally on the Luka to the Jazz train.
Jokic was always a willing defender and hes willing to get off the ball and not be the constant focal point. I think people are comparing apples to ranges when you got apples and apples with him and Harden
 
Luka needs to cut down in his whining and getting disctracted, which is not hard to imagine happening with more age and maturity. He has recognized this problem.
He also needs to be in better shape and up his defensive effort. He has also reognized both of these things, and looks to be in better shape now than he has been before.

To bury him as a guy who cannot win is insane, after already being in the WCF once with a pretty meh roster and winning in Europe before he ever came here (Euroleague champion and MVP).
He can win some, he's not a championship player, especially not when his salary gets huge.
 
Jokic went from a really good player to best player in the NBA by getting in a little better shape and learning how to be effective on defense. I think that would be much more difficult for a guard, but Luka is a huge guard and has the potential to be a much better defender.

That said, I'll reiterate that I'm not personally on the Luka to the Jazz train.
I’m not a huge fan or putting any hopes in it because I think it’s so very unlikely… I just think it’s wild to say he’s not a championship player at 24… If he needs a perfect complimentary piece or pieces to be that I can’t think of many better situations than playing with Lauri and Walker. Playoff Harden and Playoff Luka are VERY different things.

Not arguing with you… just agreeing with the basic premise and adding on… if that wasn’t clear.
 
Jokic was always a willing defender and hes willing to get off the ball and not be the constant focal point. I think people are comparing apples to ranges when you got apples and apples with him and Harden
There are no two players that are perfectly alike… lol. People made arguments against many guys not being championship quality players… they are all different but they are all valid… until they aren’t.
 
Are you disputing that Harden isnt labeled as a playoff choker? A lot of experts, analysts and former players have also publicly questionned his desire to win which is easy to prove. He basically posted a long post last year to defend that where he highlighted how he will take less money so Morey can get the guys they need to win, and how he wants to win in Philadelphia in particular. What happened a year later?

I would love to read some expert assessments why Doncic doesnt play "winning basketball". In fact I can prove this is false with ease. When I searched "Luka Doncic doesnt play winning baskeball" I found exactly one talking head who has made such a statement.

Rob Parker. Case closed.
Simply put Im diagnosing the root cause, not the symptoms.

If you have to be the 100% focal point of the offense to maximize your ability, you are 95% going to fall short in key moments down teh stretch of the hardest games.

Harden played great in Philly this post-season when he got to play Harden ball. Then Embiid came back and he stank it up.
 
Simply put Im diagnosing the root cause, not the symptoms.

If you have to be the 100% focal point of the offense to maximize your ability, you are 95% going to fall short in key moments down teh stretch of the hardest games.

Harden played great in Philly this post-season when he got to play Harden ball. Then Embiid came back and he stank it up.
Now go look at Doncic's playoff numbers and come back. Lebron was the focal point of the teams he took to the finals... once he had adequate help he broke through. There are similarities in Luka and Harden's game but Harden falling short was cuz he **** the bed. Luka does the opposite. At 22 Luka already made it as far as James ever has as the lead dog (at 22 James was coming off the bench for the OKC finals team).

His game will mature... just hilarious some questioning Luka as a winning player... he won Euroleague MVP and titles as a damn teenager playing against grown men.
 
Now go look at Doncic's playoff numbers and come back. Lebron was the focal point of the teams he took to the finals... once he had adequate help he broke through. There are similarities in Luka and Harden's game but Harden falling short was cuz he **** the bed. Luka does the opposite. At 22 Luka already made it as far as James ever has as the lead dog (at 22 James was coming off the bench for the OKC finals team).

His game will mature... just hilarious some questioning Luka as a winning player... he won Euroleague MVP and titles as a damn teenager playing against grown men.
Let's not compare Lebron to Luka/Harden lmfao.
 
Simply put Im diagnosing the root cause, not the symptoms.

If you have to be the 100% focal point of the offense to maximize your ability, you are 95% going to fall short in key moments down teh stretch of the hardest games.

Harden played great in Philly this post-season when he got to play Harden ball. Then Embiid came back and he stank it up.
Root cause for Harden not winning championships is he has sucked up the joint in a lot of key games and series over the years.

Luka has proven he can put up the numbers in the postseason.

But good luck standing on that mountain. At least you have Rob Parker keeping you company.
 
Root cause for Harden not winning championships is he has sucked up the joint in a lot of key games and series over the years.

Luka has proven he can put up the numbers in the postseason.

But good luck standing on that mountain. At least you have Rob Parker keeping you company.
Again, you are lookin at symptoms. I have no idea how you can be so daft, but you are doing so.
 
Harden has put up numbers in the post season bud. He's not a bad playoff performer, but he ultiamtely falls short because of his playstyle and how much has to grow through him, like *drumroll* Luka Doncic.

Wait till Luka is making 40% of his team's cap and the issues only get worse.
 
Notice how he ignored your actual good points and latched on to you dropping Lebrons name.

He cherry picks the arguments he counters and tries to discredit you when he has nothing to support his own opinion.
I responded to that exact quote....
 
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