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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

sirkickyass said:
I mean, Shokin's claim that there were never complaints about his performance before Biden got involved is just crazy. There's photos of protests, all from Ukrainians, specifically about him some six months before Biden's involvement.

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Shokin was one of the least popular people in the country in Fall of 2015 through spring of 2016. Acting like he was doing a recognized good job until the Americans came in and took it from him is a truly laughable statement.

The person he's swearing a statement on behalf of, Firtash, is a Yanukovych administration figure - the same guy that is now living in exile in Southern Russia because he triggered a revolution in the country in 2014. This is one of the pro-Russia forces on the outs in Ukraine standing up for their own.

In summary, Shokin is not a reliable narrator when he says that everything relating to his job in Ukraine was fine until Biden was involved.
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Interesting. I hope to eventually learn whether he was aggressively pursuing the Burisma case at the time this situation arose as he claims, or if it had been on hold and his inaction on the case was partially the reason for his dismissal as his opponents claim. If he is lying he is sure doing an elaborate job of it.

Why do you think another Ukranian government official chose to write this memo which names several lawyers who were representing Hunter Biden shortly after Shokin's termination?
 
Catchall said:
Just because the IG thinks the whistle-blower complaint is credible and forwards it to the DNI doesn't mean that the IG has reviewed evidence or conducted an investigation. The IG knows little to nothing about Trump's interactions with Ukraine or the DOJ's ongoing investigations. He's just taking the allegations seriously enough to register the complaint with the DNI.

The complaint itself is referring to the phone call with Zelenskyy that the whistleblower wasn't party to, and the transcript has been released to the public. The complaint also relies on second and third-hand conversations and tries to create a context by quoting mainstream media articles from months ago. It's formally written, but the evidence is soft.
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The IG would have spoken with those who the whistleblower got his secondhand information from. If it was made up if wouldn't have been found credible and the process would have ended there. Bringing up that it's hearsay is meaningless.
 
@Catchall, look I understand that you have this weird tendency to ignore context and think only an explicit request by Trump to "do this for me and I'll do that" would constitute leveraging his presidential powers to get a favor from a foreign leader, but that's really not the standard.
 
Catchall said:
This looks like campaign finance regulation. Are you saying that this is somehow relevant to trying to impeach Trump?

I thought you wanted to accuse Trump of blackmailing Ukraine to investigate the Bidens. Or, has that idea already fizzled out.

And what is the other thing you're saying I called a "fallacy"?
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Sorry, my mistake!! I crossed posters in my head.

I meant to ask that of @idestroyedthetoilet , who yesterday in this post https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-official-lets-impeach-trump-thread.113221/page-121#post-1822892 called my asking for @sirkickyass's legal opinion about whether things without precisely defined financial equivalents could/would still legally be considered to be of "value" (in this post https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-official-lets-impeach-trump-thread.113221/page-118#post-1822647, also see kicky's reply https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-official-lets-impeach-trump-thread.113221/page-118#post-1822667) an appeal to authority fallacy.
 
Zombie said:
Uh, pretty obviously that the President wanted Zelensky to investigate the Bidens, and he was using the military aid as leverage.
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Hasn’t both Rudy and Trump admitted such?

Cuomo: Did you ever ask Ukraine to look into the Biden’s?

Rudy: Of course I did!

Context: Trump stopped the flow of defensive missiles to Ukraine to stop the investigation of Manafort. Already setting a precedent for a transactional foreign policy where Trump is the strong member government of the power dynamic. And unless Ukraine does what’s beneficial personally to Trump, then Ukraine is going to lose out on aid. Trump pence from attending Zelensky’s inauguration in May. Trump delayed the aid passed by Congress (even McConnell admitted that he never got an explanation for this). Trump clearly indicated in this phone call (and according to the whistleblower, on others) that he wanted Zelensky to do him favors (find the DNC server and manufacture dirt on Biden).

Like... it isn’t hard to see this. It’s pretty obvious what happened. They got caught

 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Interesting. I hope to eventually learn whether he was aggressively pursuing the Burisma case at the time this situation arose as he claims, or if it had been on hold and his inaction on the case was partially the reason for his dismissal as his opponents claim. If he is lying he is sure doing an elaborate job of it.
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I don't believe there are any public statements by Shokin regarding Burisma the entire time he's in office (per the Kyiv post, who went looking for these in Ukrainian and Russian). If he was "aggressively pursuing" it, then he was doing so secretly.

I'm willing to revise my opinion on the subject if anyone can point to anything he actually did during the time he was in office.

Why do you think another Ukranian government official chose to write this memo which names several lawyers who were representing Hunter Biden shortly after Shokin's termination?
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I don't see Biden's name in that document, nor do I really understand who's writing it or what the context is. I'd probably have to see more than this one page to make heads or tails of it.

Maybe it's Yuriy Sevrik? He was only Prosecutor General for a couple of months. I dont' really know anything about him.
 
colton said:
Sorry, my mistake!! I crossed posters in my head.

I meant to ask that of @idestroyedthetoilet , who yesterday in this post https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-official-lets-impeach-trump-thread.113221/page-121#post-1822892 called my asking for @sirkickyass's legal opinion about whether things without precisely defined financial equivalents could/would still legally be considered to be of "value" (in this post https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-official-lets-impeach-trump-thread.113221/page-118#post-1822647, also see kicky's reply https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-official-lets-impeach-trump-thread.113221/page-118#post-1822667) an appeal to authority fallacy.
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For the record, I originally intended to put an emoji after that but they no longer work. @Jason emojis don't work on my android
 
sirkickyass said:
I don't believe there are any public statements by Shokin regarding Burisma the entire time he's in office (per the Kyiv post, who went looking for these in Ukrainian and Russian). If he was "aggressively pursuing" it, then he was doing so secretly.

I'm willing to revise my opinion on the subject if anyone can point to anything he actually did during the time he was in office.



I don't see Biden's name in that document, nor do I really understand who's writing it or what the context is. I'd probably have to see more than this one page to make heads or tails of it.

Maybe it's Yuriy Sevrik? He was only Prosecutor General for a couple of months. I dont' really know anything about him.
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This might help:
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaig...-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story
 
Fantastic. This is how democracy dies.



It’s like the stuff Tim Snyder, Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt have been writing about for the past few years. Complete breakdown of common values and democratic norms. @Red
 
Anyone wanna bet $50 that Trump won't be impeached?

He just won 2020, and all you weird ****s are doing is making it easier for him.
 
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