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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

colton said:
But they are not overstating and exaggerating the facts, at least most of them aren't. I mean, you can read Mueller report volume 2 where it clearly talks about Trump obstructing justice. You can read the Ukraine phone call transcript. There's the non partisan report of how he told the Russian ambassador that he didn't care that they had meddled in the election. Heck Trump himself blatantly called in public for China to dig up dirt on Biden as well. There are also all the things on my initial post of the thread, like treatment of refugees, etc. There's his obvious conflict of interest in Turkey with the Trump Towers property there which could have impacted his recent foreign policy decision against the Kurds. I could go on and on and on. These are not things spun by the Democrats. These are actual, documented, facts.
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Really? The whistleblower report does not match the call transcript. It matches the fake version that Schiff read which included threats (multiple), bribes (multiple) and strong arm tactics. The transcript included none of that. The idea that telling China or Ukraine that they ought to investigate an apparent crime is a crime in and of itself is ridiculous. I have no doubt in my mind that if Pence's son was doing the exact same things that Hunter Biden did that we'd be in the midst of a full blown investigation, but instead we're being told that there is no indication of wrongdoing and the media couldn't care less that Hunter is not available to talk about it and that Joe almost completely dodges any question he's asked about it (though he did slip up and claim that he had never had any conversations with his son about his foreign dealings (which is clearly a lie that the people you are getting your news from do not care about at all).

Trump is an annoying jerk. He exaggerates in his favor constantly. He has lax morals. He stands for concepts that some people hate. In other words, he is all of the things that the people who voted for him and the people who voted against him knew he was on election day. IMO you cannot undo an election over any of that, but those are the things the anti-Trump crowd is trying to turn into impeachable offenses. We all know that impeachment on such terms is not going to remove this president. If people are so opposed to him then they have a clear remedy and the date is approaching. Nominate a good candidate to oppose him, and then vote for that person. So far I would give the Dems an F- on their strategy.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
It ought to be pretty clear that I'm not in the pro-impeachment crowd.
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Are you not in the pro impeachment crowd because you don't think he has done anything impeachable or you just want him to remain president regardless of what he does?

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I saw this posted elsewhere (I didn't post it), and was curious what you all think about it:

Here's just a few laws he may have broken:

- U.S. Code § 872 which states: "Whoever, being an officer, or employee of the United States...representing himself to be or assuming to act as such, under color or pretense of office or employment commits or attempts an act of extortion, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both." Extortion is legally defined as "the extraction of anything of value from another person by threatening or placing that person in fear of injury to any person or kidnapping of any person." It's argued that the threat of withholding military aid and promising President Zelensky a White House Visit meets these criteria of extortion by officers of the United States.Trump has also stated he will refuse to cooperate with lawful subpoenas from the House. This is a violation of U.S. Code § 192, "Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers."Bill Taylor, an American diplomat in Ukraine stated in one of his released texts to Gordon Sondland: "I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign," suggesting that he was acting against his wishes. If he felt coerced into doing this, then U.S. Code § 610, "Coercion of political activity," has been violated.

- U.S. Code § 595 makes it illegal for a government official, "in connection with any activity which is financed in whole or in part by loans or grants made by the United States, or any department or agency thereof, [to use] his official authority for the purpose of interfering with, or affecting, the nomination or the election of any candidate for the office of President."

- U.S. Code § 607, "Place of solicitation," and U.S. Code § 30121, "Contributions and donations by foreign nationals" make it illegal to solicit contributions to a presidential campaign from the Oval Office and to solicit from foreign nationals no matter where you do it from. By asking for Ukraine's help to investigate a potential political opponent - and doing so from the Oval Office - it is argued that President Trump was soliciting contributions from foreign nationals and using his official authority as President to do so.It seems obvious to me that the impeachment inquiry is a necessary step for our country -everyone deserves to know if what our President did was against the law or if it was legal. Democrats aren't digging into this because they don't like the President; it's because there are serious accusations that have been made against him that need to be further investigated. If they are true, then he should be removed from office. If the accusations prove false, then President Trump can maintain his office and the country can move forward.

Thoughts, attorneys and/or legal experts?
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Really? The whistleblower report does not match the call transcript.
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I don't have time to respond to all of your post, but here's an analysis article comparing the whistleblower complaint with the call transcript using direct quotes. It finds an extremely close match.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...accurate-white-house-keeps-showing-how-it-is/

But who cares? The transcript itself is damning enough. "But first, we'd like this favor..." Plus Trump and team have STOPPED DENYING the allegation. Have you not noticed that? Their statements have gone from "we didn't do it" to "it's perfectly fine that we did it."
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
The idea that telling China or Ukraine that they ought to investigate an apparent crime is a crime in and of itself is ridiculous.
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What specific crime did the Bidens commit?

Also, it is in fact a crime to solicit a foreign government to investigate your political rival. It's actually very straightforward.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
IMO you cannot undo an election over any of that, but those are the things the anti-Trump crowd is trying to turn into impeachable offenses
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Impeachment does not undo an election, Trump still got to be president, and impeachment doesn't automatically make Hillary president. That's not how this works. In fact the constitution explicitly lays out a path for removal of presidents who are not fulfilling their oaths of office, and places it in the hands of the most directly representative branch of the government. That branches power was recently handed to the Democrats by the people in a recent election.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
If people are so opposed to him then they have a clear remedy and the date is approaching.
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If someone is committing crimes to help themselves win an upcoming election, that is to say cheating, the remedy isn't to simply hold that election. That's garbage logic.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
I have no doubt in my mind that if Pence's son was doing the exact same things that Hunter Biden did that we'd be in the midst of a full blown investigation,
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You mean, make money overseas while his dad was vice president? Why then are the Trump children not in the midst of full blown investigations?
 
Zombie said:
What specific crime did the Bidens commit?

Also, it is in fact a crime to solicit a foreign government to investigate your political rival. It's actually very straightforward.



Impeachment does not undo an election, Trump still got to be president, and impeachment doesn't automatically make Hillary president. That's not how this works. In fact the constitution explicitly lays out a path for removal of presidents who are not fulfilling their oaths of office, and places it in the hands of the most directly representative branch of the government. That branches power was recently handed to the Democrats by the people in a recent election.


If someone is committing crimes to help themselves win an upcoming election, that is to say cheating, the remedy isn't to simply hold that election. That's garbage logic.


You mean, make money overseas while his dad was vice president? Why then are the Trump children not in the midst of full blown investigations?
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Helluva post.

And I just want to use a metaphor that's basketball related to explain to the Trumpers why going after bidens and Hilary's "corruption" and only their corruption is not ok.

So let's say there is a referee (Trump) who has money (the presidency) riding on the jazz (republican candidate) in a game game (election).
This referee (trump) calls any and all violations against the rockets (Biden, Hilary) but the jazz (Republicans) have zero violations called against them.

Now as a jazz fan (republicans) that would great for the jazz (republicans) to be able to win the game (election)

But I would hope that the jazz fans (republicans) wouldn't be ok with that.

I know I wouldn't be ok with an official only calling things against the jazz opponent even though it would help the jazz win. And I'm a huge jazz fan.

And that's not even taking into account the fact that Trump is asking other countries to help him.

In my metaphor that would be like the referee grabbing a fan out of the crowd and telling him to only call things against one team and not the other.

And that's not even taking into account if trump is bribing or threatening these countries to get the help he desires.

And that's not even taking into account how he is trying to prevent people from participating in the investigation. If you are innocent and the bidens are guilty then you should be doing all you can to help the inquiry.

Why hasn't Trump been investigating the people who actually got arrested all around him? Hmmmmm


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Zombie said:
What specific crime did the Bidens commit?

Also, it is in fact a crime to solicit a foreign government to investigate your political rival. It's actually very straightforward.



Impeachment does not undo an election, Trump still got to be president, and impeachment doesn't automatically make Hillary president. That's not how this works. In fact the constitution explicitly lays out a path for removal of presidents who are not fulfilling their oaths of office, and places it in the hands of the most directly representative branch of the government. That branches power was recently handed to the Democrats by the people in a recent election.


If someone is committing crimes to help themselves win an upcoming election, that is to say cheating, the remedy isn't to simply hold that election. That's garbage logic.


You mean, make money overseas while his dad was vice president? Why then are the Trump children not in the midst of full blown investigations?
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LOOOOOOL

Zombie, perhaps the Bidens didn’t commit a crime because of how embedded the federal law is with corporate law. But to come out blabbing about Trump’s ties to Russia while his son Hunter was getting paid $50000/month while being on the board of a Russian state sponsored oil company is beyond bull****. Let’s get real here, is this about integrity or is it about replacing Trump with just another POS corrupt politician.
 
Jazzta said:
LOOOOOOL

Zombie, perhaps the Bidens didn’t commit a crime because of how embedded the federal law is with corporate law. But to come out blabbing about Trump’s ties to Russia while his son Hunter was getting paid $50000/month while being on the board of a Russian state sponsored oil company is beyond bull****. Let’s get real here, is this about integrity or is it about replacing Trump with just another POS corrupt politician.
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I think it's about the very specific act of using the office of the U.S. President and withholding of congressionally approved aid to pressure a foreign leader to investigate a political rival.

I also find it pretty entertaining that the crime Hunter Biden seems to be accused of is holding a position for which he isn't qualified. I mean that's the basis of the allegation Trump is making... Trump.

As far as I know it isn't a crime to be hired into a position you're not qualified for. It's also not a crime for a company to put you into a position and pay you whatever amount they want regardless of your qualifications. If it was both Trump and those who voted for him would be in big trouble.

And Biden being guilty or corrupt DOES NOT EQUAL Trump being innocent. What Trump did was impeachable regardless of Biden's possible guilt. Don't forget, Trump didn't ask for the company Hunter was working for to be investigated, he asked for the Biden's to be investigated.
 
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