The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by colton, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    It's just stupid to argue with, say..... for example.... kids at age 3 with a sort of limited range of terms and ideas, who won't listen.

    same with college-indoctrinated eggheads whose terms and definitions have nothing to do with any objective reality.

    The word "democracy" at it's roots refers to fundamental power or rule resting with people, in distinction from words like theocracy where the power lies with the religious leadership, or monarchy where there is supposedly one ruler sometimes benevolent perhaps but usually imagined to be unrestrained from determining the use of power. The word "socialism" refers to coherent action by society, under whatever original determination of that action.

    Like terms such as "right" and "left", there is no underlying reality in nature to our imagination or meaning.

    all variants of "democracy" and "socialism" suffer from the same underlying human reality..... human nature.... will result in accretion of power, solidification of power, unification of power, in the hands of a few people, and rarely will ever all go into the hand of one man. No man can exert power without a supporting network of officials, and such paid helpers as police or military personnel and organizations.

    Unless there is respect for individual rights, enforced by the general social consensus, we cannot maintain individual rights, such as claims on property or personal perogatives.

    From the philosophers of the early nineteenth century, the idea of "progress" or historical dialectics predicting a line of change in society, has all been constructed at the behest and pleasure of the privileged few of western nations in particular, seeking to consolidate a sort of hierarchy of real power around the world. To maintain this hierarchy, it is realized by those few, that the greater populations must be divided and turned, over whatever controversy, against one another in such a way that they can be controlled and managed by fear, by political manipulations, by wars or by economics.

    Marx was bought and paid for, as well as every other brand of so-called political idealism.

    Pretty foolish of us to argue the definitions they use to divide and rule. "Democratic Socialism" has been claimed by outright dictators often enough, who have literally hand-picked their favored "owners" of productive enterprises, the distinction of a true "socialism" that claims management directly of all productive resources has never been anything like a "real thing".

    politicians lie, in whatever way seems most useful. With those lies, the intellectual value of the debate just becomes nonsense.

    But it is essential, I suppose, for anyone who truly wants to believe in the fantasies.
     
  2. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    even "communism" can only exist under the management of a "Great Leader' and his little clique of privileged officials.... and usually it is an unstable clique, where any rising star who seems to be inconveniently popular, must be done away with somehow, to keep "The Great Leader" the only one who is idolized.

    Marxism is a false vision of something that cannot ever be real, because it fundamentally denies human realities.

    "Capitalism" in some quarters is another false ideal, but in some usages it refers to simple "freedom", the fundamental human right to act in one's own best interest in commercial relations. People can, and sometimes do, care for one another, and do great stuff in the interest of some common good. Sometimes we can benefit from organized benevolence in society, but there is no fundamental necessity that trying to do that means people can't still be individually "free". Voluntary cooperation fills the gap.

    I think JazzyFresh is basically right in seeing the Trump impeachment on the same vein as a political overthrow of "Capitalism".

    Pretty much, at its root, the TrumpDumpster crusade is an attempt to overthrow historical American "freedom". A lot of pointy-headed, pointy-nosed, pencil-necked "True Belivers" in Obama's sort of idea of fundamentally transforming America into the grand communist ideal..... displacing a constitutional republican form of government reliant on local power sharing with a top-down elitist dictatorship.

    I'd be as worried about Trump "fundamentally transforming" the world by slick deal-making as by Obama's, except I noticed that Obama was consistently selling America short, and enriching himself and his good buddies like crazy, while Trump has been doing things that actually benefit the ordinary interests of common Americans.

    That might change, overnight perhaps, but nobody is going to sell me the elitist load outright.
     
    JazzyFresh likes this.
  3. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    It’s amazing how as the amount of corruption in Trump’s administration increases, the amount of blocked posts on this website increases. Jazzy hadn’t posted for weeks and now is suddenly running his mouth nonstop these days.

    Weird
     
  4. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    So you don't realize what is going on when you block people like me.

    And you preach "get educated", while as a teacher you don't even understand the word education. That's why you of all posters are the one who is most strident, most insistent, on dicatating the propaganda who probably can't even read yourself, just reflexively re-posting daily talking points, and blocking anyone who doesn't just bend over.

    You complaining about "corruption" is a laugh. You won't think for a minute what Hillary and Obama did, or Biden did, is "corruption", and you're insisting that anyone who wants to investigate such things is "corrupt".

    Dig in a little deeper. Maybe you'll discover your tonsils.
     
    Joe Bagadonuts likes this.
  5. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    I notice you using the word "did" in referencing the villains of your nightmares.
    You should start using the word "doing" and have some talks about trump and his goons. ( I know you won't think that way about your hero though)

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
     
  6. colton

    colton All Around Nice Guy Staff Member

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  7. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    Well, naturally, it's you who are ignorant. And, as expected, in your usual misleading and deceptive style, the very style that led me to conclude you have never been an honest broker in any of the Trump threads, and I see others here feel the same way.

    I think David Frum does a better job of describing what Pelosi was responding to by her gesture. He is the president of roughly 2/5th's of the electorate. From the day following his election in 2016, he has never behaved as if he even wants to be the president of all Americans. He doesn't even try. Instead he delivers extraordinarily partisan SOTU addresses, and you simply miss that entirely. Right the hay over your head every time. Although, honestly, I think you know all this already.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/sotu/606142/

    "The president crammed his speech with blatant and aggressive lies. The Trump administration is not committed to protecting patients with pre-existing conditions; it has repeatedly sought to end this protection and is in court right now trying again. The U.S.’s position as the world leader in oil and gas production is not thanks to any action of Trump’s; the country moved into first place in 2012. Trump has not presided over any kind of “comeback” of the economy, which grew faster in the three years before he took office than in the three years since. Manufacturing employment has not recovered under Trump; because of his trade wars, manufacturing employment has crashed on his watch. Trump’s untruthfulness is notorious, but it’s still a departure to lie and mislead so often and so brazenly before all the assembled Congress."....

    "Even more indecent was Trump’s conversion of the State of the Union into a campaign rally. The Constitution requires that the president “from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient.” By long custom, the State of the Union is attended by the justices of the Supreme Court, by the joint chiefs, and by foreign diplomats. They should not have been deployed as props during chants by Trump supporters in the galleries and from Republican members of Congress of “Four more years” and “USA! USA!” If the State of the Union is now openly a campaign event, none of them should be there—and really, members of the non-presidential party should be excused as well. No honest information is being provided, scarcely any necessary and expedient measures are being recommended for consideration—it was all just a slightly-less-thuggish-and-openly-racist-than-usual version of a Trump rally."

    "Slightly less openly racist. We all belong to the suffering human species. Cancer commands our compassion whomever it strikes. But to summon all members of Congress to join in a ceremony honoring a person they have good cause to regard as a preeminent media race-baiter—well, it was as wrong as it would have been for President Obama to demand Congress applaud Louis Farrakhan, not that Obama ever would have demanded such an outrageous thing. Like Limbaugh, Farrakhan has a fan base, but even their fans understand that both men owe their success to their genius for denigration and contempt. To honor such a person on such an occasion is the most spectacular possible way of announcing: The State of the Union no longer aspires to speak to the country as a whole."

    "Trump bases his legitimacy on the support of two-fifths of the nation (“95 percent approval among Republicans!”). He interprets the job of being president as fighting the cultural battles of the two-fifths against the majority. By his own account, he hates the state of New York “even more than I should.” He disparages California as a land of filth and homelessness, the city of Baltimore as rat-infested, and Chicago as a zone of unchecked criminality. Americans share fewer and fewer symbolic public events. The State of the Union was one of them. Trump has changed it into something purely partisan and factional, programming the evening exclusively to and for his cherished two-fifths. Who knows when or whether it will ever be changed back?"
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
    JazzGal likes this.
  8. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

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    This is absolutely correct. Pelosi made a very poor political decision when she ripped up that speech. If she believes her actions were really justified then she ought to make her own video explaining what she really was ripping up.
     
  9. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    Remember when Trumpers on here and on social media insisted that Barr didn’t shut down the Mueller probe at Trump’s insistence? Haha good times good times.
     
    colton likes this.
  10. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much







    Trump definitely learned his lesson...

    the politicization of the DOJ is terrifying. I remember when republicans freaked out when Bill Clinton was on the same airplane or something as the AG.
     
  11. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    Would it surprise anyone if today Trump’s DOJ began an investigation of the Sanders family? Or a probe into Mayor Pete’s campaign? Or Klobuchar? The mere fact that we almost expect this kind of corruption just shows how far we have fallen.
     
  12. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    I wouldn't be surprised at all. In fact I will be surprised if it doesn't happen at some point.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
     
  13. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we have learned to expect corruption. Discovering that the Obama administration surveilled Trump ought to scare all of us into recognizing how far this can go. Learning that the FBI was treating unsubstantiated political smears as fact ought to scare everyone. I'm sure that was your point, right?
     
  14. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    Wow another anti Trump he's racist rant. Original... Extremely bitter and one sided yourself yet you call me partisan.

    Fantastic.

    You never answered my question...

    How many speeches do you think Nancy was given lol? Common sense is not a string suit i guess... And others don't like me because I'm not afraid to challenge such stupidity like people not being smart enough to understand that paper doesn't just randomly unrip itself 15 times so she can rip it again in the EXACT SAME MANNER EVERY SINGLE TIME. If you construed such stupidity that a paper can respawn like a Call of Duty character and unrip itself that's on your ignorance not mine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  15. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who supposes I have any "hero" hasn't understood a thing I ever said.

    The reason we can't just blow by the Clintons, the Bushes, Obama or any of the Obama Administration's misdeeds boils down, like anything real Trump could do or has done, to the general problem of having an elite class of "leaders" whom we will not prosecute for actual crimes.

    So far, nobody has impressed me much about Trump's misdeeds in the uproar of the all-out assault on the Presidency itself...… which of course will be "fixed" once your man is in there.

    Various players on the scene may have their own ideas of what is important. I think of all dems, perhaps Bloomberg is the most genuine climate change man, and if he were in any need of an angle of influence, Bill Gates would be the most concerned about overpopulation, which he is actively working on in the brown-peopled parts of the world especially. And George Soros might be the one true communist working on leveling America with Bangladesh, for the good of all to be sure.

    But Obama and Hillary were the most concerned with building their own direct power networks, the most determined to establish themselves as the new "royals".

    I think Trump would do any good deal he could that would be fair for Americans somehow, and he is indeed the antithesis of the above dem players, but not from any ideological convictions. He loves the ideas of freedom, that's about it. He admires and respects people who will act effectively for the general prosperity of the world.

    All the screaming about Trump so far is just "sour grapes" from stupid people who never even believed in the rights of human beings.
     
  16. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    They don't care about Obama illegally spying on people they only care about Trump because he's proving it doesn't take a genius to run this country when you take the Globalized swamp out of the equation. If they for one second admitted Trump did a single thing good it would be the end of them and everything they've been programmed to believe. Thrillers life would be void without Trump bashing
     
  17. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    Yes, really. I always thank people for admitting they were wrong. It's only polite.
     
  18. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    He died 125 years ago. Words change meaning over time.
     
  19. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    No one in this thread, and none of the US Presidential candidates, believes Marx was correct.
     
  20. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be getting angrier and angrier lately.
     

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