The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

[JimLes]

It should be pointed out that while Navalny certainly was an opponent of Putin, to the point where Putin obviously just had him killed, he was hardly a "hero." I get that Putin is our enemy and that by being his enemy, Navalny sort of become our friend, but he was not some kind of a Nelson Mandela figure he has been made out to the best the last couple of years. Or, if I'm going to be a little more cynical, the kind of figure Navalny had conveniently tried to make himself out to be the last few years.

Navalny was not only a Russian nationalist, but the kind that 15 years ago became an opponent of Putin specifically because he didn't think Putin was a big enough of a nationalist. Navalny participated in and latter even co-organized the annual Russian March parades. If you don't know what these parades are, I'll save you the googling time and just show you this picture from one of them. The shields say "for Russian people" and "for Russian power/authority." Notice that none of the flags are the white-red-blue Russian state flags. You can probably guess why.

Navalny was heavily involved in anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim causes. During 2013 anti-immigrant riots in Moscow, Alexei Navalny played up his populist nationalism as he championed the rioters' for confronting "hordes of legal and illegal immigrants" on his blog. Sounds familiar, eh?

Navalny supported Russia's invasion of Georgia in 2008. He also supported Putin's view that Russia had the right to interfere in the internal politics of former Soviet republics.

As recently as 2012, Navalny was making comments that denied the existence of Ukrainian people and championing the idea of triune Russian people(Great, Little and White Russian...known by normal people as the Russian nation, Ukrainian nation, and the Belarus nation).

I think we're much better off seeing this as Sollozzo having Luca Brasi killed. Just a big villain killing a smaller villain.

 

[silesian]

That piece is sour grapes. Journalists giving people they are interviewing enough rope to hang themselves used to be considered a savvy technique before the journalist class transformed into Overton Window religious enforcers. As for Tucker Carlson, he is the single most influential journalist in the world right now.

"journalist"

You misspelled traitorous Russian propagandist.

 

[Red]

Our foreign policy, at least as the MAGA wing sees it, must reflect Trump’s need to punish Ukraine for his first impeachment, punish Zelensky. It’s always revenge where the man child is concerned.

 

[Rubashov]

It should be pointed out that while Navalny certainly was an opponent of Putin, to the point where Putin obviously just had him killed, he was hardly a "hero." I get that Putin is our enemy and that by being his enemy, Navalny sort of become our friend, but he was not some kind of a Nelson Mandela figure he has been made out to the best the last couple of years. Or, if I'm going to be a little more cynical, the kind of figure Navalny had conveniently tried to make himself out to be the last few years.

Navalny was not only a Russian nationalist, but the kind that 15 years ago became an opponent of Putin specifically because he didn't think Putin was a big enough of a nationalist. Navalny participated in and latter even co-organized the annual Russian March parades. If you don't know what these parades are, I'll save you the googling time and just show you this picture from one of them. The shields say "for Russian people" and "for Russian power/authority." Notice that none of the flags are the white-red-blue Russian state flags. You can probably guess why.

Navalny was heavily involved in anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim causes. During 2013 anti-immigrant riots in Moscow, Alexei Navalny played up his populist nationalism as he championed the rioters' for confronting "hordes of legal and illegal immigrants" on his blog. Sounds familiar, eh?

Navalny supported Russia's invasion of Georgia in 2008. He also supported Putin's view that Russia had the right to interfere in the internal politics of former Soviet republics.

As recently as 2012, Navalny was making comments that denied the existence of Ukrainian people and championing the idea of triune Russian people(Great, Little and White Russian...known by normal people as the Russian nation, Ukrainian nation, and the Belarus nation).

I think we're much better off seeing this as Sollozzo having Luca Brasi killed. Just a big villain killing a smaller villain.

In the 500 year history of the Rus there has been what 15 minutes of democracy? Russians don't want democracy, wouldn't know what democracy is if they had it. They love a dictatorship.

 

[Sardines]

In the 500 year history of the Rus there has been what 15 minutes of democracy? Russians don't want democracy, wouldn't know what democracy is if they had it. They love a dictatorship.

Watch the first minute or two at least.



makes more sense now that I put the video in the post

 

[The Thriller]

Our foreign policy, at least as the MAGA wing sees it, must reflect Trump’s need to punish Ukraine for his first impeachment, punish Zelensky. It’s always revenge where the man child is concerned.

Isn’t that the sad truth? Republicans will make the world a much worse place and kill countless Ukrainians all to settle a petty score that Orange god king has with zelensky. I get that countries have peaks and valleys when it comes to foreign policy decisions. Some work out and some don’t. But at least the usually influenced by logic for the well-being of America. Instead, this is just a petty score settling for MAGA and their cult leader.

America is giving up on NATO and giving Ukraine away all for… what exactly?

Hell, we have given away countless of our own lives, wealth, and reputation for 8 years now. all for… what exactly? Trump.

 

[Rubashov]

Isn’t that the sad truth? Republicans will make the world a much worse place and kill countless Ukrainians all to settle a petty score that Orange god king has with zelensky. I get that countries have peaks and valleys when it comes to foreign policy decisions. Some work out and some don’t. But at least the usually influenced by logic for the well-being of America. Instead, this is just a petty score settling for MAGA and their cult leader.

America is giving up on NATO and giving Ukraine away all for… what exactly?

Hell, we have given away countless of our own lives, wealth, and reputation for 8 years now. all for… what exactly? Trump.

Its interesting that the American public and political discourse isn't focused on what Trump is doing to America's position in the world. Its image international as an ally which is now an unreliable ally. If I lived in Taiwan Id be selling up and leaving the country while my property still had some value. The MAGA mob have even tried to hinder Australia in acquiring nuclear subs through AUKUS cause they want job assurances for their districts (likely north Dakota or any district 1000 miles from the ocean.) but it demonstrates that they will threaten shaft a long term ally and military partner for a soapbox moment for some two bit **** bag congressman. The Australian tax payer is forking over something like 370 billion dollars to a country which is run by petulant children.

 

[Red]

Isn’t that the sad truth? Republicans will make the world a much worse place and kill countless Ukrainians all to settle a petty score that Orange god king has with zelensky. I get that countries have peaks and valleys when it comes to foreign policy decisions. Some work out and some don’t. But at least the usually influenced by logic for the well-being of America. Instead, this is just a petty score settling for MAGA and their cult leader.

America is giving up on NATO and giving Ukraine away all for… what exactly?

Hell, we have given away countless of our own lives, wealth, and reputation for 8 years now. all for… what exactly? Trump.

Just using this as a snapshot of where we are at the moment:


View: https://twitter.com/AymanMSNBC/status/1759254225148637319


That our society could actually, and truly be, this stupid, is probably the surprise of my life. I don’t understand, but maybe unlike older European democracies, we have too little of something, or too much of something, maybe too much social media creating a “take sides” inevitability, that somehow means it won’t work here.

For some reason, we have no control over something we didn’t anticipate: it may not be possible to bring uncontrolled “madness” into the fold of a sane society. If future instability grows, some type of dictatorship probably results, just to restore order.

At that point, we’ve lost democracy anyway, but the biggest problem is really big: we learn that we can’t prevent political madness, prevent the Trumps of society from entrancing people for bad reasons, people are simply far too complex, far too non self aware to understand themselves, to safely navigate away from even a transparent mob boss-like con artist!!

Pretty big problem when you find out you have to figure out how to solve the weaknesses of human nature because people don’t really understand their own emotionally-based snares and biases, and why they are responding to demagoguery as they are, enjoy their darker angels, etc. How does education overcome the weaknesses of human nature that flush rationality itself down the drain? That is a huge problem…

 

[LogGrad98]

Just using this as a snapshot of where we are at the moment:


View: https://twitter.com/AymanMSNBC/status/1759254225148637319


That our society could actually, and truly be, this stupid, is probably the surprise of my life. I don’t understand, but maybe unlike older European democracies, we have too little of something, or too much of something, maybe too much social media creating a “take sides” inevitability, that somehow means it won’t work here.

For some reason, we have no control over something we didn’t anticipate: it may not be possible to bring uncontrolled “madness” into the fold of a sane society. If future instability grows, some type of dictatorship probably results, just to restore order.

At that point, we’ve lost democracy anyway, but the biggest problem is really big: we learn that we can’t prevent political madness, prevent the Trumps of society from entrancing people for bad reasons, people are simply far too complex, far too non self aware to understand themselves, to safely navigate away from even a transparent mob boss-like con artist!!

Pretty big problem when you find out you have to figure out how to solve the weaknesses of human nature because people don’t really understand their own emotionally-based snares and biases, and why they are responding to demagoguery as they are, enjoy their darker angels, etc. How does education overcome the weaknesses of human nature that flush rationality itself down the drain? That is a huge problem…

Really most leaders in history rely on the willful ignorance of the masses, by and large. Sometimes it props up good leaders who have good intentions, sometimes it props up people like Trump and Hitler. Unfortunately willful ignorance has always been the Hallmark of the "unwashed masses", so to speak. When they refuse to comply anymore is when you get things like the French revolution, which then lead to leaders that relied on the willful ignorance of the masses to the new status quo. What's really amazing is how singular demagogues can take advantage of that willful ignorance to shape the masses into their personal fanatics and carry out things like the Holocaust. Or the Rwandan genocide. Or whatever the **** Trump thinks he's going to pull off here and now. During the late 1800's and early 1900's we endured the Propaganda Age, and now, it may be even worse in the Age of Disinformation. We can only hope that more than half of Americans are willing to turn their willful ignorance toward the less destructive politicians. I don't have a ton of hope for that honestly. This is really a frightening time in our country and our very freedom may hang in the balance. No hyperbole.

 

[The Thriller]

Really most leaders in history rely on the willful ignorance of the masses, by and large. Sometimes it props up good leaders who have good intentions, sometimes it props up people like Trump and Hitler. Unfortunately willful ignorance has always been the Hallmark of the "unwashed masses", so to speak. When they refuse to comply anymore is when you get things like the French revolution, which then lead to leaders that relied on the willful ignorance of the masses to the new status quo. What's really amazing is how singular demagogues can take advantage of that willful ignorance to shape the masses into their personal fanatics and carry out things like the Holocaust. Or the Rwandan genocide. Or whatever the **** Trump thinks he's going to pull off here and now. During the late 1800's and early 1900's we endured the Propaganda Age, and now, it may be even worse in the Age of Disinformation. We can only hope that more than half of Americans are willing to turn their willful ignorance toward the less destructive politicians. I don't have a ton of hope for that honestly. This is really a frightening time in our country and our very freedom may hang in the balance. No hyperbole.

What sets this apart is that the countries you mentioned above were suffering through a great economic crisis and/or poverty (pre-Revolutionary France, Weimar Republic, Rwanda). We haven’t been and currently aren’t. It’s the exact opposite. We are bored to death because of all of our prosperity and now seek authoritarianism as a release from all the boring prosperity and freedom that democracy has provided us. Or at least, 30-40 percent want authoritarianism to replace democracy. All for entertainment and to wage their perceived racial and cultural grievances.

 

[The Thriller]

Just using this as a snapshot of where we are at the moment:


View: https://twitter.com/AymanMSNBC/status/1759254225148637319


That our society could actually, and truly be, this stupid, is probably the surprise of my life. I don’t understand, but maybe unlike older European democracies, we have too little of something, or too much of something, maybe too much social media creating a “take sides” inevitability, that somehow means it won’t work here.

For some reason, we have no control over something we didn’t anticipate: it may not be possible to bring uncontrolled “madness” into the fold of a sane society. If future instability grows, some type of dictatorship probably results, just to restore order.

At that point, we’ve lost democracy anyway, but the biggest problem is really big: we learn that we can’t prevent political madness, prevent the Trumps of society from entrancing people for bad reasons, people are simply far too complex, far too non self aware to understand themselves, to safely navigate away from even a transparent mob boss-like con artist!!

Pretty big problem when you find out you have to figure out how to solve the weaknesses of human nature because people don’t really understand their own emotionally-based snares and biases, and why they are responding to demagoguery as they are, enjoy their darker angels, etc. How does education overcome the weaknesses of human nature that flush rationality itself down the drain? That is a huge problem…

I think the solution is for sane and freedom loving (small d) democracts to unite behind the pro-democracy party and candidates. This is what Poland did last year. Those who gave a **** about democracy voted en mass to outvote the rural and more pro authoritarian coalition. Policy differences can be debated later. Right now it’s either Biden and the (big d) Democrats or authoritarianism.

Sadly, the media is rooting so hard for Trump that it completely normalizes the situation we find ourselves in. Trump will provide them with loads more entertainment and tax cuts. Covering his daily train wreck is fun! You never know which world leader he’ll compare his private parts to. This sadly, also fits a pattern. Often media outlets conform to what the authoritarian leader wants. Those that remain skeptical, are usually taken over or put out of business. This is what Putin and Orban have done. When we see what Murdock, Sinclair News, and Facebook have done, it’s no surprise that a good chunk of the country lives in an information desert.

 

[Red]

Really most leaders in history rely on the willful ignorance of the masses, by and large. Sometimes it props up good leaders who have good intentions, sometimes it props up people like Trump and Hitler. Unfortunately willful ignorance has always been the Hallmark of the "unwashed masses", so to speak. When they refuse to comply anymore is when you get things like the French revolution, which then lead to leaders that relied on the willful ignorance of the masses to the new status quo. What's really amazing is how singular demagogues can take advantage of that willful ignorance to shape the masses into their personal fanatics and carry out things like the Holocaust. Or the Rwandan genocide. Or whatever the **** Trump thinks he's going to pull off here and now. During the late 1800's and early 1900's we endured the Propaganda Age, and now, it may be even worse in the Age of Disinformation. We can only hope that more than half of Americans are willing to turn their willful ignorance toward the less destructive politicians. I don't have a ton of hope for that honestly. This is really a frightening time in our country and our very freedom may hang in the balance. No hyperbole.

Excellent points, IMHO.

 

[The Thriller]

I wish the more “conservative” members of this board who demand to be taken seriously would repudiate amoral stuff like this from the leader of the GOP. But I guess Biden is old or something so we can’t.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Excellent points, IMHO.

The Holocaust, the Rwandan Genocide, and Trump selling some basketball shoes are the same category of thing? ...And the Rwandan Genocide was the result of a singular demagogue?

 

[Rubashov]

What sets this apart is that the countries you mentioned above were suffering through a great economic crisis and/or poverty (pre-Revolutionary France, Weimar Republic, Rwanda). We haven’t been and currently aren’t. It’s the exact opposite. We are bored to death because of all of our prosperity and now seek authoritarianism as a release from all the boring prosperity and freedom that democracy has provided us. Or at least, 30-40 percent want authoritarianism to replace democracy. All for entertainment and to wage their perceived racial and cultural grievances.

You're wrong about greater prosperity, its greater prosperity for some, there is a massive fault line in so many western countries between wealthy boomers and struggling younger generations often working long hours, making large wages but struggling due to things like a housing crisis. When my parents bought their house the average house price was roughly 4 times the average wage, today its close to 14 times that. Home ownership is the cornerstone of retiring with dignity in our society and that is now out of reach for generations.

People have greater job insecurities than ever, they're working longer hours, leading to people living lives of greater alienation and loneliness, all this is fertile ground for the right wing.

I can tell you now what the big problems are in this country, cost of housing, cost of living, long working hours from tenuous employment and the environment.

The right will blame the cost of housing on immigration, the cost of living on trade unions, long working hours are a good productivity and flexibility, people want a 60 hour week with no OT and there really isnt anything to worry about with the environment, just cause half the country is either on fire or flooded or both half the time.

Boomers might be bored with their prosperity, the rest of us are fighting for the scraps that fall off their table.

 

[The Thriller]

You're wrong about greater prosperity, its greater prosperity for some, there is a massive fault line in so many western countries between wealthy boomers and struggling younger generations often working long hours, making large wages but struggling due to things like a housing crisis. When my parents bought their house the average house price was roughly 4 times the average wage, today its close to 14 times that. Home ownership is the cornerstone of retiring with dignity in our society and that is now out of reach for generations.

People have greater job insecurities than ever, they're working longer hours, leading to people living lives of greater alienation and loneliness, all this is fertile ground for the right wing.

I can tell you now what the big problems are in this country, cost of housing, cost of living, long working hours from tenuous employment and the environment.

The right will blame the cost of housing on immigration, the cost of living on trade unions, long working hours are a good productivity and flexibility, people want a 60 hour week with no OT and there really isnt anything to worry about with the environment, just cause half the country is either on fire or flooded or both half the time.

Boomers might be bored with their prosperity, the rest of us are fighting for the scraps that fall off their table.

This opinion isn’t based on FACTS. Sure, it’s a story pundits on tv tell. And it certainly makes is feel better cuz who can argue against wealth inequality? But it’s not what actually is happening. The problem is much more social and cultural, in other words, harder to fix than economic. That’s the primary driver of discontent with our democracy, not wealth inequality.

The discontent from Americans isn’t coming from younger people or from working class Americans. Those went overwhelmingly for Biden in 2020 (even Hillary won them in 2016). The discontent with American democracy is coming from rural areas with demographic change and upper class people bored to death with wealth but upset with the culture. It’s why we’ve seen this discontent explode since 2009 when a black man dared to win their White House.

When are we going to finally kill this zombie that Trumpism is fueled by wealth inequality? My god it’s been disproven time and time again that feels about race, not actual wealth inequality, determined one’s voting in 2016 and similarly in 2020. Trump and the GOP is the leader and party of rich Americans and whites with cultural and racial grievances. They, like all right wing authoritarian movements before them, have successfully welded themselves to rich (white) capitalists and clergy to maintain the social, racial, and cultural hierarchies.

You could also see similar movements in the UK, France, Hungary, and Poland; those “angry” with democracy aren’t working class stiffs. They’re older and wealthier than the average citizen. What fuels their insatiable anger: immigration, racial and gender equality, boredom, and other real or perceived grievances. Just look at Brexit, it wasn’t young or working class people who voted to leave, it was older wealthier people.

As always, I support my opinions with actual facts. I don’t speak about these things off the cuff. They’re things I read about and at times participate in with research at my university.

Behind Biden’s 2020 Victory

A new analysis of 2020 validated voters examines change and continuity in the electorate, both of which contributed to Joe Biden’s victory. It looks at how new voters and voters who turned out in either 2016, 2018 or both voted in the 2020 presidential election, and offers a detailed portrait of...

www.pewresearch.org

2020 Presidential Election exit polls: share of votes by income U.S. 2020 | Statista

According to exit polling in the 2020 Presidential Election in the United States, 57 percent of surveyed voters making less than 50,000 U.S.

www.statista.com

EU referendum: The result in maps and charts https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

The areas and demographics where the Brexit vote was won

Who and what led the leave campaign to the startling win that will likely redefine British politics?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Al-O-Meter]

The right will blame the cost of housing on immigration, the cost of living on trade unions

Australia and the United States seem to be different. In the US, high housing prices are blamed on a combination of excessive regulation on construction…

Why California’s ‘affordable’ housing costs $1 million a unit - Pacific Research Institute

Why California’s ‘affordable’ housing costs $1 million a unit By John Seiler | February 10, 2023 A friend of mine is an executive in the construction industry. His company sometimes works on government projects, especially in Los Angeles. As a non-union shop, his company works under the rules...

www.pacificresearch.org

… and high interest rates making borrowing prohibitively expensive.

Home Prices And Affordability: Q4 2023 | Bankrate

A new report from the National Association of Realtors shows that home prices in Q4 2023 rose in 86 percent of markets.

www.bankrate.com

As for our labor market, our unemployment rate is well below 5%. The cost of living is high due to inflation but real wages are now rising faster than inflation.

The younger generation is locked out of home ownership right now but that is because of the aforementioned interest rates and construction regulations. Most homeowners have locked in fixed rate mortgages around 3% APR and are refusing to sell their homes due to any new mortgage being ridiculously more expensive. That in combination with it being so hard to build new houses means inventory is super tight which keeps prices high. As soon as the interest rates drop to pre-COVID levels, the whole system will thaw and the younger generation will be able to buy starter homes.

 

[The Thriller]

This opinion isn’t based on FACTS. Sure, it’s a story pundits on tv tell. And it certainly makes is feel better cuz who can argue against wealth inequality? But it’s not what actually is happening. The problem is much more social and cultural, in other words, harder to fix than economic.

The discontent from Americans isn’t coming from younger people or from working class Americans. Those went overwhelmingly for Biden in 2020 (even Hillary won them in 2016). The discontent with American democracy is coming from rural areas with demographic change and upper class people bored to death with wealth but upset with the culture. It’s why we’ve seen this discontent explode since 2009 when a black man dared to win their White House.

When are we going to finally kill this zombie that Trumpism is fueled by wealth inequality? My god its been disproven time and time again that feels about race, not actual wealth inequality, determined one’s voting in 2016 and similarly in 2020.

You could also see similar movements in the UK, France, Hungary, and Poland; those “angry” with democracy aren’t working class stiffs. They’re older and wealthier than the average citizen. What fuels their insatiable anger: immigration, racial and gender equality, boredom, and other real or perceived grievances. Just look at Brexit, it wasn’t young or working class people who voted to leave, it was older wealthier people.

As always, I support my opinions with actual facts. I don’t speak about these things off the cuff. They’re things I read about and at times participate in with research at my university.
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Behind Biden’s 2020 Victory

A new analysis of 2020 validated voters examines change and continuity in the electorate, both of which contributed to Joe Biden’s victory. It looks at how new voters and voters who turned out in either 2016, 2018 or both voted in the 2020 presidential election, and offers a detailed portrait of...

www.pewresearch.org

2020 Presidential Election exit polls: share of votes by income U.S. 2020 | Statista

According to exit polling in the 2020 Presidential Election in the United States, 57 percent of surveyed voters making less than 50,000 U.S.

www.statista.com

EU referendum: The result in maps and charts https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

The areas and demographics where the Brexit vote was won

Who and what led the leave campaign to the startling win that will likely redefine British politics?

www.theguardian.com

Some additional and helpful reading:

A new study reveals the real reason Obama voters switched to Trump

Hint: It has to do with race.

www.vox.com

How Biden Won Back (Enough of) the White Working Class

Joe Biden won Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan, and the Democrats saw an increased share of votes from white working-class voters in 2020. What did he do to win this crucial support in the heartland? Three things. He went there frequently, which Hillary Clinton did not. Biden talked about...

hbr.org

The Politics of Resentment

“An important contribution to the literature on contemporary American politics. Both methodologically and substantively, it breaks new ground.” —Journal of Sociology & Social WelfareWhen Scott Walker was elected Governor of Wisconsin, the state became the focus of debate about the appropriate...

books.google.com

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PYLTPDF/?tag=jazzfanzcom-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09C2K1X6T/?tag=jazzfanzcom-20

 

[Red]

Navalny likely killed by ‘one punch’ to the heart in classic KGB tactic, activist claims

Alexei Navalny had been kept outdoors for hours in subzero temperatures before his death.

nypost.com

 

[Rubashov]