The Player's "STAND"

[carolinajazz]

No one put a gun to the owners' heads and forced them to hand out these God-awful inflated-guaranteed contracts. The players, of course, will be happy to take the money, they'd be fools not to. So the owners keep one-upping each other, and the system gets out of hand. The owners got themselves into this mess, and now they want to take it out of the hide of the players.

NBA players have unique talents, the best in the world, as a matter of fact. Why do we begrudge them their money, while we gladly shell out the bucks for Lady Gaga, U2, Julia Roberts, George Clooney, etc. who all make far more than NBA players? We pay them obscene amounts because we think they have unique talents. Why should it be different for athletes?

....it's true, the owners are trying to protect themselves....from THEMSELVES! However, I cannot sympathize with players who play so pathetically on a regular basis and STILL get hugh paychecks per game for doing so! I do not shell out big bucks to watch any of these clowns....nor do I spend my money to watch movie stars or other entertainers do what they do! They, of course, are as overpaid as any NBA player or other professional athlete. I rarely, if ever, go to the theater....and when I do I grab a early afternoon show...and bring in my own popcorn and soda and candy!

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

....it's true, the owners are trying to protect themselves....from THEMSELVES! However, I cannot sympathize with players who play so pathetically on a regular basis and STILL get hugh paychecks per game for doing so! I do not shell out big bucks to watch any of these clowns....nor do I spend my money to watch movie stars or other entertainers do what they do! They, of course, are as overpaid as any NBA player or other professional athlete. I rarely, if ever, go to the theater....and when I do I grab a early afternoon show...and bring in my own popcorn and soda and candy!

You may not shell out money for these other clowns, but plenty of other people do. And if they do, it is because they believe that these clowns possess unique talents that they are willing to pay for. Don't generalize from your own cheap-skate self to the general population. Mass behavior clearly demonstrates that people are willing to reward talent with large amounts of money. Again, if this is the case, why should athletes be any different?

I understand the frustration that players getting paid big bucks sometimes or often mail it in. A prime reason I favor getting rid of guaranteed contracts.

In response to another poster who railed on players shoving their money in our faces, just how do they do that? By living well? What the hell do you expect them to do? Buy a Corolla and shop at TJ Max? The wealthy conspicuously spend, and they've done it since almost the dawn of time. How many of you, if you made incredible amounts of money, would not buy nice cars, clothes, houses, etc? Why rail on rich, young black men for conspicuous consumption, when rich old white men have been spending conspicuously for a hell of a lot longer?

I understand that the situation in the NBA is out of whack and does need to be adjusted. What I don't get is the anger toward the players who are not doing anything differently than 95% of us would do if we were in the same place. Frankly, I think a lot, though surely not all, of this anger it is motivated by rank jealousy.

 

[moevillini]

"Welcome to Arby's, my name is Carmelo can I take you order please?"

makes me think of something I just heard this morning: Science majors ask how to define the problem, Engineering majors ask how they can solve the problem, English majors ask if you want fries with your order...

anyhow, there's plenty of other basketball around - - high school, college etc - - it's just not played at as high a level as the NBA. But then again many of you (in addition to the chief whiner, carolinajazz) complain about the show-boating and chucking, lack of defense, one on one style of play in the NBA - - maybe you'd even be happier and more entertained!

and cj, you'd see far fewer tattoos at the high school level as well!

 

[moevillini]

I think we all need to sit back and relax and watch a few episodes of Basketball Wives.


Then instead of trying to feel sorry for either the players or the owners, we can just feel sorry for ourselves for the time we wasted.

 

[DutchJazzer]

....it's true, the owners are trying to protect themselves....from THEMSELVES! However, I cannot sympathize with players who play so pathetically on a regular basis and STILL get hugh paychecks per game for doing so! I do not shell out big bucks to watch any of these clowns....nor do I spend my money to watch movie stars or other entertainers do what they do! They, of course, are as overpaid as any NBA player or other professional athlete. I rarely, if ever, go to the theater....and when I do I grab a early afternoon show...and bring in my own popcorn and soda and candy!

YOU ARE STUPID and clearly dont knwo how the theather works. the movie stars receive the money from the tickets. the theather almost resceives no money from the ticket. they are using the over inflated popcorn and soda prices to keep their head up. so by not byiing popcorn and soda ur not screwing the movie star but the theather. who has a hard time keeping open his theather

 

[DutchJazzer]

In response to another poster who railed on players shoving their money in our faces, just how do they do that? By living well? What the hell do you expect them to do? Buy a Corolla and shop at TJ Max? The wealthy conspicuously spend, and they've done it since almost the dawn of time. How many of you, if you made incredible amounts of money, would not buy nice cars, clothes, houses, etc? Why rail on rich, young black men for conspicuous consumption, when rich old white men have been spending conspicuously for a hell of a lot longer?.

he is saying not flaunting it in our faces. not going on mtv cribs. get it? thinking you misunderstand him

 

[toccoto]

They are the best of the best and CAN do this.

Let's put it this way. Say you were the best chef in the world, and someone came to you and said 'We are only going to pay you this much because, lets face it, being a chef isn't that important and it's plenty to live on anyway.'

You'd say... uh.. no. And go find someone to pay you a ton because you are the best.

NBA players are the best of the best. They make money, and they have the power to do this. People trying to compare them to other unions etc are, frankly, wrong. Why? Because sadly, postal workers and warehouse stockers and firemen can be replaced.

There is no one better to replace these people with.

 

[JimLes]

In response to another poster who railed on players shoving their money in our faces, just how do they do that? By living well? What the hell do you expect them to do? Buy a Corolla and shop at TJ Max? The wealthy conspicuously spend, and they've done it since almost the dawn of time. How many of you, if you made incredible amounts of money, would not buy nice cars, clothes, houses, etc? Why rail on rich, young black men for conspicuous consumption, when rich old white men have been spending conspicuously for a hell of a lot longer?

You're completely missing the point. It's now about why many people feel this way, it's about what you're going to do about it. Fair or not, I(and many others) feel the players don't exactly make an effort to make themselves easy for fans to relate to. Calling us jealous or haters accomplishes nothing, except to drive that wedge even further. Then they find themselves in difficult labour negotiations and they wonder why us fans have little sympathy for them. It's because we've had very little sympathy for you for years and you've done nothing to reassure us.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

You're completely missing the point. It's now about why many people feel this way, it's about what you're going to do about it. Fair or not, I(and many others) feel the players don't exactly make an effort to make themselves easy for fans to relate to. Calling us jealous or haters accomplishes nothing, except to drive that wedge even further. Then they find themselves in difficult labour negotiations and they wonder why us fans have little sympathy for them. It's because we've had very little sympathy for you for years and you've done nothing to reassure us.

I deleted my response after concluding that it's probably not worth it. Suffice to say, I understand the points made, sympathize with them, but do not fully agree. I'll leave it at that.

 

[JimLes]

I deleted my response after concluding that it's probably not worth it. Suffice to say, I understand the points made, sympathize with them, but do not fully agree. I'll leave it at that.

We can agree to disagree while respecting each other's standpoints. That's the beauty of civil discourse on the internet.

At the end of the day, we all want to see Jazz basketball. This year, next year, and hopefully 20 years from now so I can annoy my teenage children by forcing them to watch the Jazz and regaling them with tall stories about Karl Malone.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Since the major sticking point is the hard cap I was trying to think of a way of having stricter/harder soft cap that didn't alienate the smaller markets even more (meaning making it even harder and only the large market teams would and could go into it). So with that said forgive my ignorance but couldn't a starting structure point be (assumption in keeping similar current reasons to why you can go over it) you could only go over it so many years in a row like say 2 or 3years for example, keeping the LA's, NY's, DA's for example from living in it year after year and also maybe put in once you've come out you can't go into back into it for a certain time as well again say 2yrs.


Also of course there has to be a way to get rid of completely guaranteed contracts, partial guaranteed to different and easier ways to include buy outs and make it harder to just cut the low end contracts but easier to for the high end max contracts, as a way to protect the players that couldn't really afford to just have their contracts just cut.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Since the major sticking point is the hard cap I was trying to think of a way of having stricter/harder soft cap that didn't alienate the smaller markets even more (meaning making it even harder and only the large market teams would and could go into it). So with that said forgive my ignorance but couldn't a starting structure point be (assumption in keeping similar current reasons to why you can go over it) you could only go over it so many years in a row like say 2 or 3years for example, keeping the LA's, NY's, DA's for example from living in it year after year and also maybe put in once you've come out you can't go into back into it for a certain time as well again say 2yrs.


Also of course there has to be a way to get rid of completely guaranteed contracts, partial guaranteed to different and easier ways to include buy outs and make it harder to just cut the low end contracts but easier to for the high end max contracts, as a way to protect the players that couldn't really afford to just have their contracts just cut.

I believe they already agreed on the non-guaranteed contract issues. Its all about the hard cap vs soft cap now. Even though the deadline is approaching both sides have just been mostly posturing on this issue, the first one to flinch basically loses billions over the next 10 years. At the end of the day a compromise will be made on this "flex cap". In 1999 the rating were in the sewer and there wasn't much to lose. Both sides do not want to risk ratings returning to those levels.