The Stretch 4 Discussion Thread


LoPo

Well-Known Member
Alright fellow Jazz fans and utahjazzz; this very comprehensive thread is dedicated to all you stretch 4 lovers out there. After an amazing season, many of us identify PF as where we need more scoring and spacing. I will include free agents AND players who might be available via trade. I will include all players who are either PF or can play PF some. For example, I include a guy like Mbah a Moute who is a SF who can play some PF against a Houston/GS.

The players are broken up into 3 categories:
#1 - Time Waster - I personally believe we shouldn't waste time discussing
#2 - Worth Discussing - primary target options worth discussing
#3 - The Jerekbo Type - consolation option who is temporary and/or more easily attainable.

Time Wasters:

Aaron Gordon - I don't see any reason why Orlando lets him go. Since he's a restricted free agent, acquiring him would be very complicated anyway. If he was acquired in a complicated sign-and-trade scenario, I don't see us having the trade pieces Orlando would require especially since he would likely be signing a near max deal. If we tried to sign him, we would have to release a ton of people without certainty Orlando would let him go. He should not be part of discussions.

Kevin Durant - not gonna happen.

LeBron James - not gonna happen.

Carmelo Anthony - not gonna happen.

Joe Johnson - not gonna happen.

David West - not gonna happen.

Dario Saric - not gonna happen. Please don't mention him. If they do sell, we don't have the assets they would want.

Ryan Anderson (2 years $41.5 remaining) - we aren't going to do Houston any favors and take that contract for them. The guy seems done anyway.

Kenneth Faried (1 year $13.7 remaining) - he's not a stretch 4 or a good fit.

Julius Randle - personally, I'm a big fan, but I just don't see how he addresses our needs. We need a scorer and spacer but he's more of an energy guy. He is set to get paid too.

Michael Beasley - the guy has always had talent, but I don't like his fit. Let Favors go to get Beasley. We should aim higher.

Marvin Williams (2 years $29 remaining)- I have always liked him, but that contract for 2019-20 is a deal breaker. If he was just paid for next season, he could be a great fit.

Trevor Ariza - while I think he would be a great fit here, I think he will choose to stay at Houston or go to a bigger market contender.

Nicolas Batum (3 years $78 remaining) - on the court, he could be an amazing fit. However, he makes $24, $25.5 and $27 the next three years. If he just had the next two years, it would be worth discussing. That 3rd year is the deal breaker.

Chandler Parsons (2 years $49 remaining) - I'd take him in a heartbeat if they sent us the pick that got us Doncic. But that probably isn't happening on either side.

Worth Discussing:

DeMarre Carroll (1 year $15.4 remaining) - his skill set really compliments our roster. Most importantly, we could use another guy like him against our toughest competition (Houston and GS). Non-guaranteeds and maybe a 2nd seems like a fair trade to me.

Tobias Harris (1 year $14.8 remaining) - the ideal target. He's a stretch 4 who is a solid defender. He can create offense, shoot and attack the rim. They could keep Harris with Lou Williams while re-signing Avery Bradley, but really what's the point? The Clippers should go into a rebuild by trading Jordan and Harris. Non-guaranteeds, #21 and a future protected 1st is a very good offer.

Danillo Gallinari (2 years $44 remaining) - our FO liked him a few years ago but that contract is ridiculous. I'd take him if we could send Burks, Udoh, & Jerekbo and get back either their pick (#14) or Detroit's pick (#12). The Clippers could look to "contend" by keeping Harris and using picks to dump Gallinari OR they get picks for Harris and Jordan and rebuild. Glad I'm not a Clippers' fan because they are average either way.

Kawhi Leonard (1 year $20 remaining with a $21 player option for 19-20) - we could try to get him using non-guaranteeds, Burks, #21, future 1sts, whatever, but I don't think we have the assets. Worth discussing because anything is possible. Maybe he wants to play with Mitchell...

Jabari Parker - the million dollar question. Who is he really? Is his offense worth his questionable defense? Would Quin make him a star because Bucks' coaching has been so poor? How much does he want? He will be discussed at length.

Ersan Ilyasova - he is a stereotypical stretch 4 who has been playing well with Philly since coming over from Atlanta. I'm a big fan, especially if we discuss realistic options.

Justise Winslow (1 year $3.5 remaining restricted year after that) - many think that Miami won't keep him long term. I think the kid still has a lot to provide. He played 25mpg this year and shot 38% from 3 on 2 attempts per game. His physical attributes should make him a good switch defender for a long time.

JaMychal Green (1 year $7.8 remaining) - If Memphis starts selling to build around their top pick, he could help us. He shot 34% from 3 this year. Doubt he is just sold off though.

Nemanja Bjelica (restricted free agent) - Minnesota has cap issues and dude is a knock down shooter. He's a poor man's Niko. He's older but I think he could be acquired on a budget. We could make an offer that puts Minny in a bind.

Harrison Barnes (1 year $24 remaining with a $25 player option for 19-20) - he is still young enough to contribute. At GS, he did what it took to get better, play D and win a title. I'm not sold that he's our answer, but he would be an improvement over Favors for sure.

Kevon Looney - still only 22 and is destined to get better. He played 14mpg for Golden State this season. He's raw, but I like his potential. If we can take him away from GS, we might be taking away their future Iggy guy.

Kevin Love (1 year $24 remaining with a $25 player option for 19-20) - if LeBron leaves, maybe Cleveland sells him as part of a rebuild. However, I don't think he's a stretch 4. I think the fit doesn't work next to Gobert against teams like Houston and Golden State. Offensively, he's better than Favors but the fit with Gobert simply doesn't work like Favors/Gobert. He's on the bottom of this list for a reason.

Luol Deng (2 years $36 remaining) - he should probably be with the Jerekbo types, but I think the guy still has some quality minutes left in him. There is no reason why he couldn't play a role similar to Trevor Ariza, Moe Harkless, Jeff Green, DeMarre Carroll, etc. Taking him would gain us assets. Still probably not worth it.

The Jerekbo Type:

Rudy Gay ($8.8 player option) - he wouldn't be a long term solution, but I could see him coming our way if we offered him the starting spot. Doubt we would want to give him $8.8, but he probably would take a longer term deal. This doesn't excite me.

Moe Harkless (2 years $22.5 remaining) - he's borderline worth discussing, but I don't want to do Portland any favors and I'm not sure they would trade the assets necessary to dump him. Same can probably be said for their Meyers Leonard.

Mbah a Moute - he's the cream of the Jerekbo Type crop. He's a decent player, but he wouldn't provide the impact we need. If we get him, I'm happy but I'm hope he would be in addition to somebody else.

Jeff Green - I like him, but I think he stays with a Cleveland type contender. He is a pretty solid player who would start for us against a team like Houston. We want better though.

Trevor Booker - if he was meant to come here and we wanted him, he would have come when Philly bought him out after the deadline.

Ed Davis - great energy beast on the boards. Not a stretch 4 but still a decent bench PF.

Wilson Chandler (1 year $12.8 remaining) - he might be in the worth discussing area but since he has to be acquired via trade, I'm bumping him down. He would be a lateral move. I would rather have Jerekbo and Thabo.

Anthony Tolliver - meh

If I missed anybody, I'm sorry. Let the discussion begin...
 
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Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
Missed one that I would watch as the Jazz... Bjelica in Minny. They have cap issues and dude is a knock down shooter. He's a poor man's Niko. He's older but I think he could be acquired on a budget.

I'm really hoping they don't make him the QO and he is unrestricted. He can do more than just shoot and played some SF this year (not a good situation for him but he did ok). He can attack close outs and such.

I think we could get him on a 1+1 with a team option on the second year at the MLE.
 

7StraightIsGreat

Well-Known Member
There’s a few guys like Kawhi that most people will immediately dismiss as not worth talking about due to the fact that we don’t have the assets necessary to acquire said player. I think that would be a mistake.

Getting a 3rd team involved in a discussion and possibly being willing to absorb a really bad contract in the process can do wonders sometimes.

With the Millers, I think we’ve seen that when this team nears legit contention they’re willing to do the spending necessary to get this squad over the hump.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
The most serious guys I'd consider -

Demarre Carroll - I think an AB for DMC is a fair deal. Gets them a few million more in cap space to make a legitimate offer somewhere.

Moe Harkless - He's like a poor man's Ariza. He's overpaid and they have issues. They also have Aminu so there is duplication there. I wonder if they will give a minor asset to get off of his contract. I don't want money in 2019 but $10M is manageable. He's a young vet.

Marvin Williams - If we can trade our unguaranteeds or AB and #21 for #11 I would do it. I would target Miles Bridges (though I have some doubts). I think he could be similar to Tobias Harris. Again we would take on 2019 money when we want to be players in FA. I think they'd consider this type of deal. They have no flexibility, they have sucked in the draft, Mitch has traded a lot of picks in his day, MJ is a tightwad. Would not do this for MKG or Zeller... would have to be Marvin.

Tobias is the pipe dream. In addition to his strong play his love affair with Boban is low key the best thing ever. I think he'd fit in with our group on and off the court. I will also bring Boban in a year when he's a FA on a minimum deal to reunite the duo. I've always liked Tobias and can't believe Orlando sent him out for nothing. Detroit should have just rebuilt and sent out Tobias for draft picks... their future would look so much different. Don't do business with Jerry West... just don't.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Missed one that I would watch as the Jazz... Bjelica in Minny. They have cap issues and dude is a knock down shooter. He's a poor man's Niko. He's older but I think he could be acquired on a budget.

I'm really hoping they don't make him the QO and he is unrestricted. He can do more than just shoot and played some SF this year (not a good situation for him but he did ok). He can attack close outs and such.

I think we could get him on a 1+1 with a team option on the second year at the MLE.

I'll add him on the list. Thanks.
 

bigmike

Well-Known Member
Very solid overview, thanks for posting.

Tobias Harris would be a wet dream. But I can't imagine LAC is going to part with him, unless they don't think he would re-sign in free agency (I believe he's unrestricted in 2019). He's a really good piece to build around.

I don't ordinarily like trading firsts, but if LAC did decide to move him I would be comfortable trading #21 and a future protected pick. Guy is a real stud.
 

checkbookdoc

Well-Known Member
I think the Jazz should be focused on high upside players that they can have under contract for several years, as such I want to talk about Aaron Gordon... but you asked me not to so I won't other than to say I think reasonable minds can disagree on your take. Also, because I am bitter about the Gordon censuring, I will instead point out that your proclamation that we have the assets to trade for Kawhi is the worst take in the post.

I like that you brought up Winslow. He is a player I hadn't thought about. I like that he is young, and the Jazz would have long term control over his rights. Also, he is good on defense and might develop into an decent spot up shooter. I just don't think he will ever be able to create his own offense. If he was cheap I would like this deal.

I don't like T Harris because it would only be for one year. I think it would be better to focus on adding a core piece.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
Very solid overview, thanks for posting.

Tobias Harris would be a wet dream. But I can't imagine LAC is going to part with him, unless they don't think he would re-sign in free agency (I believe he's unrestricted in 2019). He's a really good piece to build around.

I don't ordinarily like trading firsts, but if LAC did decide to move him I would be comfortable trading #21 and a future protected pick. Guy is a real stud.

He is extension eligible too. It would have to start at like 18M a year, so 4/80 approximately. I think if they offer it and he says no then he is gettable via trade because he is expiring. If he accepts the extension he can't be traded for 6 months and if he's healthy they'd want good assets to move him.

Jerry West turned a hobbled Blake Griffin that is owed $173M into a lotto pick and tobias harris and cap flexibility. Detroit is straight dumb.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
The most serious guys I'd consider -

Demarre Carroll - I think an AB for DMC is a fair deal. Gets them a few million more in cap space to make a legitimate offer somewhere.

Moe Harkless - He's like a poor man's Ariza. He's overpaid and they have issues. They also have Aminu so there is duplication there. I wonder if they will give a minor asset to get off of his contract. I don't want money in 2019 but $10M is manageable. He's a young vet.

Marvin Williams - If we can trade our unguaranteeds or AB and #21 for #11 I would do it. I would target Miles Bridges (though I have some doubts). I think he could be similar to Tobias Harris. Again we would take on 2019 money when we want to be players in FA. I think they'd consider this type of deal. They have no flexibility, they have sucked in the draft, Mitch has traded a lot of picks in his day, MJ is a tightwad. Would not do this for MKG or Zeller... would have to be Marvin.

Tobias is the pipe dream. In addition to his strong play his love affair with Boban is low key the best thing ever. I think he'd fit in with our group on and off the court. I will also bring Boban in a year when he's a FA on a minimum deal to reunite the duo. I've always liked Tobias and can't believe Orlando sent him out for nothing. Detroit should have just rebuilt and sent out Tobias for draft picks... their future would look so much different. Don't do business with Jerry West... just don't.

Tobias and Kawhi are the biggest stretches, but I think we can get them. We would just have to mortgage future drafts. Are we willing to trade #21, 2020 1st and maybe even 2022 1st for a player who could leave after a year? Tobias seems so incredibly perfect. Maybe we bring both him and Boban in. Heck, maybe all of these are connected. Maybe we trade for Tobias and Boban and then the Clippers make a massive push for Kawhi. They would have 3 1st rounders they could send SA this year (#12, #14, and #21).

Start it off with Burks, Udoh, Jerekbo, #21 and a top 20 protected 1st in 2020 for Harris and Boban: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ydyz4sy2

I'm perfectly fine if we end up with DeMarre Carroll. And I love the Marvin Williams idea too (if we can get the pick of course).
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
I think the Jazz should be focused on high upside players that they can have under contract for several years, as such I want to talk about Aaron Gordon... but you asked me not to so I won't other than to say I think reasonable minds can disagree on your take. Also, because I am bitter about the Gordon censuring, I will instead point out that your proclamation that we have the assets to trade for Kawhi is the worst take in the post.

I like that you brought up Winslow. He is a player I hadn't thought about. I like that he is young, and the Jazz would have long term control over his rights. Also, he is good on defense and might develop into an decent spot up shooter. I just don't think he will ever be able to create his own offense. If he was cheap I would like this deal.

I don't like T Harris because it would only be for one year. I think it would be better to focus on adding a core piece.

I said that "I don't think we have the assets to get Kawhi." I respect your opinion that we should target Gordon, but I just don't share that opinion. We can get Gordon one of two ways:

#1 - we let Favors, Exum, Thabo, Jerekbo, Neto and Udoh walk. We then sign Gordon to a max or near max. We then hope Orlando doesn't match it (really, really hope).

#2 - we sign and trade for Gordon, but what do we use? Who do we have under contract that they want? Rubio? Gobert? Ingles? Orlando can find a much, much better sign and trade than what we have to offer.

I love the idea of Winslow. Seems like a contributor for the next decade. Not a star, but a Crowder type. I'd take another Crowder.... And yes, Tobias Harris is a gamble due to his contract. But his skill set would be perfect...
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
Kawhi will be moved to LA, Boston, or Philly. We don't have the blue chip asset to make that work. He won't hit FA... he will be extended by SA or whatever team gets him.

Tobias is likely gettable, but I'd rather retain the assets and get him outright in FA. Unless they drop the acquisition price to something like a 2019 1st and salary fodder.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Thabo is going to be the starter next year, besides the first 5 games, which will be Jae Crowder. There isnt anyone good enough on the free agent market to be the starting 4 given the Jazz's available money (all they have is the MLE at 8.6 million).

I would love to get Anthony Tolliver. The guy is one of the true shooting big men, not just a big guy who learned to be a shooter. He is a true marksman.


He would definitely be one of my top targets in free agency.
 

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