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Thoughts about....well, not thinking(?)

My take is that Tolle is a ******** artist.

He "never" has negative emotions??? Okie dokie.

If you want to live in the now, accept God's free love that continually flows like falling rain drops. Look up, open up, and catch every drop as it falls to you. There it is, catch it now, and now, and now, and now, and now, and now, whoops missed one. Repent and catch the next one now, and now, and now, and now, and do good works. No time to sit on park benches. God's creatures are all around. His loves fills you with love for your fellow man. Catch it now and do good works. Turn the other cheek and do good works.

Peace
Sahlensguy
 
I have been dealing with some personal and family stuff that has profoundly and fundamentally changed my life over the past year or so.

Has anyone heard or read anything by Eckhart Tolle? I have and have found it to be strangely resonant for me, and I am curious if anyone else has any experience with this, or anything similar.

What do you think?

(see what I did there?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oORUehs4s7Q

Can you believe it, after all this time away I start out back at JF with this newage crap? There I got that out of the way. Whew I feel better already, don't you?


OK, after watching the first minute of the video all I can think is that he must be on drugs...

and I do get pissed at drivers who cut me off or do anything that seems stupid to me, and I suppose I do personalize gusts of wind because I'll get just as pissed at the wind as anything, if it disrupts the pile of papers on my desk...
 
by the way, Log, sorry but I'm not seeing what you did there, anywhere...
color me clueless in that regard :)

I feel like it's one of those hidden picture puzzles where something appears if you look at it the right way... and I could never get those to work either

but in spite of my cluelessness, I'm still glad to have you back
 
glad you're back Log :)


my mind is too scattered at the moment to focus on anything though so I have no further comment to add at this time

straight to the point of the whole philosophical approach the guru trots out. now.


OK, OK, what I meant was that my mind is too EMPTY to focus on anything so I have no further comment to add...


(see what I did there?)
 
OK, OK, what I meant was that my mind is too EMPTY to focus on anything so I have no further comment to add...


(see what I did there?)

OK OK.

So you are classifying yourself as the exact starting point Tolle tries to "fix". I don't take Tolle's remarks as the equivalent of the song that was on the charts in the late eighties with the line "Don't worry. . . be happy" in there over and over again. One of the more superficial approaches to happiness is the strategy of just denying anything else a place in your conscious process, trying to just shut down the critical thinking. . . . .

I suppose Tolle is not like that, and I question whether he is Zen Buddhist sort of thinker/believer as well.

Tolle would probably insist that you accept yourself---- "love yourself" in the Stanley sermon linked by Hotttie above----- and then move on to sorta choose to let the wind blow a little while maybe organizing your papers under a paperweight. You make the decision to deal with the bad drivers around you by managing your own steering wheel and gas pedal. Let the things that are not in your hands or control be unable to disrupt the things you can actually manage.

I haven't read Tolle, but I do get that he is actually teaching a method for focusing on self-control. Yes, there is some context sorta theorized to be conveniently ignored while you manage your path. Maybe not always a good thing. For example, if someone is heading for a collision with you, you better just chuck that whole idea about ignoring it.
 
I watched the YouTube clip you posted and it sounded a lot to me like Buddhism... in particular Zen Buddhism?

How interesting. I was reading the thread from the beginning, and up to the point where I read your post, this was the very thought that was going through my head.

Nick, my personal "progression", if you will, is the complete opposite of yours. I was raised in a Christian religion and have since migrated to stance that I can only describe as being a hopeful agnostic.

I have not read this guy's books, but as others have said it's pretty common sense. A lot of the strife and stress we feel is self induced, because we either are anxious about things that are out of our control or we care too much about things we shouldn't really be worried about.

There are some real parallels between Covey's Circle of Influence vs. Circle of Concern paradigm and Tolle's opinions espoused in this short video.

Anyway, I tend to agree - the ego does a lot more damage than good at times.
 
I appreciate everyone's comments. It really makes me think.

I think what spoke to me was the fact that we choose, either consciously or subconsciously, how we react to any given stimulus. So, Moe, the driver cuts you off. You have the ability to choose to be pissed off and aggressive, or you can just observe it for what it is, someone else making a different choice in their driving than you would, and not let it drive negative emotion. Of course you have to physically react to it to make sure you are safe, but do you have to, are you absolutely driven to, get into a state of road rage with no control over the situation? That is where I think I have seen the greatest value.

I think Babe is getting closer to what I see in this, but imho, Tolle is not in any way talking about ignoring anything, least of all an immediate threat to life or limb, but rather perceiving everything as it is without judgement in order to be able to choose how to react, or if at all to react to it. This is the problem I have with religion is we are in essence programmed to judge everything constantly and often harshly, especially ourselves, and that these preconceived judgements are supposed to directly guide our lives. As opposed to the view that we should choose, by being able to truly be in the present moment without judgement or expectation, how and when we react to things that occur to and around us. We have been programmed to react in certain ways, either culturally or through our own previous experiences with allowing our emotions to happen to us, so much that it is simply second nature to react, instead of consciously acting. Not that a moral framework, be it through organized religion or a personal philosophy, isn't something we should strive to live by, but that the way we do so is of far more importance and profundity to us when we eliminate the programming of reaction and choose how or if we are going to react, or what connotation we are going to append to an occurrence, even our own failings, or "sins".

In The Power of Now, Tolle says

Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of concepts, labels, images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and your fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. It is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness...

Like Babe said, it isn't anything earth shattering, but it is something that made me really look at how I approach my life, and realize that what I viewed as happening "to" me in a negative light, was really my negative reaction to what is in essence mostly neutral stimuli.

Obviously as a moral person, I think we should have some guiding set of standards and some reactions are normal and expected and even healthy, but for me the ah-ha moment was in looking at this as a way to take back my psyche from the overwhelming forces of what was happening to me and taking control of how I responded to it.

Again, boiled down like that it seems just to be common sense, but I think in practice, an in everyday life, it is anything but easy or second nature for us.


I am trying to put this in a framework that doesn't sound just, well stupid, but it's hard to put into words I guess. I know what I am seeing in my mind and in my life but it is hard to get at the core of it with something as limiting as words, you could say. And I know that many people find this exact condition through organized religion, but for me organized religion was perpetuating and even was the source of the labels, judgments, etc. that formed that block. Or, as I am beginning to see, not the religion itself but my reaction to it, maybe.

I guess this might be why I felt like I wanted to open this up in a forum, to be able to explore some of these topics in a context that would really make me think through it all, even when the title of the thread is "not thinking". So I apologize if it seems disjointed. I have felt very disjointed over the past year or so, so I guess it is to be expected.



(that is what I did there, Moe, see?...thinking about not thinking? what do you think? ;))
 
^^^

Well yes, absolutely, as mentioned in my previous post, Mindfulness practice is now being applied in many medical programs. The original and most popular program was devised by Jon Kabat-Zinn, who has written many books and I've read some of them. They provide good practical guides to living your life in the Now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness-based_stress_reduction

Mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR) is a structured complementary medicine program devised by Jon Kabat-Zinn that uses mindfulness to help people cope better and be more at ease in their life. It is thought to be effective for treating ailments including alleviating pain and improving physical and emotional well being for individuals suffering from a variety of diseases and disorders. While mindfulness has its roots in Buddhist teachings, the program is not spiritually based. Those who practice MBSR range in age, health, and beliefs and it is made clear that the psychological principles of mindfulness can be practiced by anyone.

Essentially he is applying theories/principals traditionally taught in Buddhism but leaving out the spirituality side of thing. So something like this could be useful in applying to everyday life and help to reduce stress. I've actually help someone write a PhD thesis on how mindfulness techniques help Diabetes patients cope with the stress that comes with the treatment. The results show that the program/technique indeed helps in making the patients cope better.
 
Reacting to something is not the same as dwelling on it - I can react to the driver who cuts me off by swearing and getting it out of my system at the moment and then letting it go. In part it's a matter of choosing your battles. It's not as if you can expect life to follow a smooth course and always just coast through every situation.

So you need to be able to determine what level of reaction is appropriate for the particular situation, to what degree your actions can influence the outcome and then take appropriate action. It helps to have resources within yourself or within your community to help you take the appropriate action. Some folks just don't have the physical, mental or financial resources to take appropriate actions. So to the extent that having a mind that is too cluttered with trivial concerns can interfere with one's ability to think through possible solutions to more critical concerns, it's good to be able to clear the trivial stuff out. And I think some folks just have an innate ability to react better to stressful situations.

And then there are those who, whether consciously or subconsciously, just manage to avoid getting into situations that they consider stressful in the first place. I know of a couple middle-aged men who date sparingly, live simply and work somewhat boring but secure jobs who say they wouldn't do it any other way because they avoid a lot of stress living the way they do. They are happy and lead fun lives and don't worry about relationship issues, or what kind of trouble their kids might be getting into, who's going to cut the grass or feed their pets when they travel, or how they're going to pay the unexpected bill, etc. One guy doesn't even have a car (easier to do if you live somewhere very walkable with good access to public transit)

I guess perhaps just a step or two above sitting on a park bench for two years :)
 
And then there are those who, whether consciously or subconsciously, just manage to avoid getting into situations that they consider stressful in the first place. I know of a couple middle-aged men who date sparingly, live simply and work somewhat boring but secure jobs who say they wouldn't do it any other way because they avoid a lot of stress living the way they do. They are happy and lead fun lives and don't worry about relationship issues, or what kind of trouble their kids might be getting into, who's going to cut the grass or feed their pets when they travel, or how they're going to pay the unexpected bill, etc.

Good heavens, that's me. Except for the boring job. I have a great job. And I can pay unexpected bills. But I highly doubt I will ever get married again.
 
I can see where he is coming from, but i think it would be meaningless to live a life where you don't allow yourself to feel and embrace the negative feelings (madness, sadness etc.). of course if you are stuck in a constant state of depression this could be helpful, but i believe life needs a balance of emotion.


P.s sorry if i'm repeating someone, there were a few tldr posts.
 
Ok I was reading the Bible last night and have found this passage to talk about something similar, i.e., Living for Today:

Matthew 6:25-27 ESV

"Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?"


Matthew 6:31-34 ESV

Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble."
 
I can see where he is coming from, but i think it would be meaningless to live a life where you don't allow yourself to feel and embrace the negative feelings (madness, sadness etc.). of course if you are stuck in a constant state of depression this could be helpful, but i believe life needs a balance of emotion.


P.s sorry if i'm repeating someone, there were a few tldr posts.

Yeah I thought about it that way at first too, but now I am seeing it more like using my emotions as I choose to experience life to its fullest rather than letting them use me.
 
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