Through Jesus, I am defined by being God's child.

[m3at]

Whatever helps D-Will win us a title!

When DWill goes to the Lakers, will he win us a title then?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

"I don't want to argue"
That's all fine and good, as you're really not very good at it. I responded because your original post invited response. If you don't want to discuss your beliefs, I'd suggest you avoid declaring them publicly.

I don't mind discussing my beliefs, and I will try harder to not have an attitude.

Maybe this is a better way of me responding to your saying belief in God is subjective.
Our belief in him is personal and our beliefs may be subjective.
That does not change the nature of God.
The truth of God will not change because I believe He is actually a person, and someone else believes God is some power somewhere without any form.
So, we can believe what we want, but my whole point here is that God will tell us if we ask him. So why would we not ask Him what is Truth?

As to God not answering us in the same way, I believe he does. If you ask the same question as I do, and we both are really trying to find out the truth, he will not lie. This is why I believe we would receive the same answer. The trick is making sure we are asking the same question, and that we both really want to know.

Ok, I am shutting up, unless you do want to continue a discussion.

 

[Gameface]

At the risk of being hammered for responding, I will.
God exists and is real, Jesus exists and really is the Son of God.... and here is how anyone can find out for themselves.

First, you have to think about and be grateful for all of the good things God has done for people since the creation of Adam, down to the good things he has given you.

Second, you have to want to know if it is true, with the intent to do something about it when you receive an answer. If you want to get an answer but plan on doing nothing about it you probably will not get an answer. If you have to have this real intent, and have some faith in Christ..... then if you pray and ask God, in the name of Christ if he is real, and if Christ really is his Son and the Savior, and whatever else you want to know, he will tell you through the Holy Spirit in a way you will recognize.

If you are mocking, or don't have any faith at all, or do not have a real intent to do something with the answer you receive you probably will not receive an answer.

The other thing... it helps to read some of the words of God before as a basis for what you are asking, and it also helps that you don't give up if you do not get an answer the first time. Sometimes it takes a consistent effort to really know.... personally I think God wants us to prove to him how important it is to us to know something.

Answers come in different ways, sometimes you just know in your mind. Sometimes you feel all warm inside, blablabla... you will know. Basically God speaks to you in a language you will understand.

This is just my thoughts on this.... I figure we will hear shortly what other people think of this.

In this I find my greatest objection to faith. To me, at it's foundation faith is an act of denying and avoiding reality. You must first accept the fact that reality is not really real by accepting a supernatural and intelligent role in creating reality. That essentially means that the same supernatural entity (God) can change reality at any moment. That it is impossible to really know anything, because after all, you cannot know the mind of God. You must also accept that your perception, your ability to think and reason based on actual reality, is flawed. You have to already accept that God can be real before you can find out that He is real. Then, the way in which you find out that God is real is just that you know, or have a feeling in your bosom, or some other self-reassuring sensation that allows you not to actually know, but to feel good about your effort to actively deceive yourself and evade reality.

So in essence faith is the rejection of one's own mind. Rejection that the way in which we, as intelligent beings, interact with the world should be the result of thinking and reasoning. Rejection of our individual responsibility to understand this world as it is, rather than the way we wish, hope or desire that it is.

Anyone can convince them self of any fantasy they desire if they try hard enough and actively evade the facts that contradict their fantasy.

That's my take, anyway.

 

[LogGrad98]

Whatever helps D-Will win us a title! That's what I say. He can do it in whoever's glory he pleases. In the end, a championship will be glorious for all.

In the meantime, this thread should be stickied so the Big Man Up Stairs doesn't have to scroll through countless past pages or utilize a frustrating search function.

For the prophecy it's worth, your opinion is that I am defined by being your self

iawtp

 

[m3at]

2+2 = 4. That is truth. There is no truth in a belief unless there are facts to prove that "truth". Otherwise it's just your opinion and/or belief. I'm christian, but as much as I want to say, "I know this unseen being loves each of us", there is no truth in that. Again, anything related to our belief is not going to be considered truth, because again, it's a belief/wish/faith/hope. "It is raining today" is not stating a truth or a fact when it's bright and sunny, but a hope/belief and no matter how hard we wish it would rain still does not make this statement true. "it's raining like mad out there" is a stated fact and the evidence is that water is falling from the sky so this statement is true.

So when statements like, "I know there is a God that loves us and wants us to be happy", are made it's merely a hope/wish/belief regardless of how much "you" think you know it to be true. Why? Well, there are absolutely zero facts to prove this existence except "feelings".

In fact, one could argue that those feelings are a figment of each persons imagination due to that hope/faith/belief and that those feelings can be reproduced through scientific means which leads me to the "God Helmet". If you don't know what this is, look it up. Pretty fascinating stuff and yet, there are still a lot of unanswered questions regarding the "God Helmet" because of the limitations of science in understanding exactly how the brain works.

Here is a picture that depicts what I'm really trying to say:

 

[porqsmith]

I don't mind discussing my beliefs, and I will try harder to not have an attitude.

Maybe this is a better way of me responding to your saying belief in God is subjective.
Our belief in him is personal and our beliefs may be subjective.
That does not change the nature of God.
The truth of God will not change because I believe He is actually a person, and someone else believes God is some power somewhere without any form.
So, we can believe what we want, but my whole point here is that God will tell us if we ask him. So why would we not ask Him what is Truth?

As to God not answering us in the same way, I believe he does. If you ask the same question as I do, and we both are really trying to find out the truth, he will not lie. This is why I believe we would receive the same answer. The trick is making sure we are asking the same question, and that we both really want to know.

Ok, I am shutting up, unless you do want to continue a discussion.

Oh, I'd love to continue this discussion. I don't personally know any religious people, so this board is the only place I ever hear from believers.

So, as I understand it, you believe God will give consistent answers.

Why, then, do people from various belief systems make the same or similar attempts to receive answers from God with wildly differing results?

 

[LogGrad98]

Truth is truth.
Your understanding of Truth is objective.
Truth will not change, you will.

I agree but then how do we know the truth is true?

Gotta remember something. Before Copernicus and Galileo everyone knew the truth was the sun and all the heavens revolved around the earth. The church espoused this so adamantly that they excommunicated Galileo (a horrendous punishment in his time) and in the end he payed for it with his life. Was it the truth? With new knowledge "truth" can change.

Kay summed it up pretty good in Men in Black:

Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.

 

[m3at]

I don't mind discussing my beliefs, and I will try harder to not have an attitude.

Maybe this is a better way of me responding to your saying belief in God is subjective.
Our belief in him is personal and our beliefs may be subjective.
That does not change the nature of God.
The truth of God will not change because I believe He is actually a person, and someone else believes God is some power somewhere without any form.
So, we can believe what we want, but my whole point here is that God will tell us if we ask him. So why would we not ask Him what is Truth?

As to God not answering us in the same way, I believe he does. If you ask the same question as I do, and we both are really trying to find out the truth, he will not lie. This is why I believe we would receive the same answer. The trick is making sure we are asking the same question, and that we both really want to know.

Ok, I am shutting up, unless you do want to continue a discussion.

I think you're basing your understanding of God off your belief which is completely subjective and personal. If I don't believe in the same God as you do, the how can he NOT change because, after-all, this is simply a belief...right? There is absolutely no way to prove the existence of God(s).

 

[LogGrad98]

I think you're basing your understanding of God off your belief which is completely subjective and personal. If I don't believe in the same God as you do, the how can he NOT change because, after-all, this is simply a belief...right? There is absolutely no way to prove the existence of God(s).

There is no way to prove he/she/they do NOT exist either. Assuming something is not there because there is no evidence (or you do not accept any evidence as valid) is still an assumption. An unprovable theory on both sides.

 

[m3at]

Oh, I'd love to continue this discussion. I don't personally know any religious people, so this board is the only place I ever hear from believers.

So, as I understand it, you believe God will give consistent answers.

Why, then, do people from various belief systems make the same or similar attempts to receive answers from God with wildly differing results?

Great point. I have the answer, well at least what I think the answer will be. "Because my beliefs are correct". How do you know? "Because God told me". And round and round we go!

This is where humanity is failing. Instead of believing in the human spirit, we have put all of our trust in the culture we were a part of. In essence, we are all products of our culture and if that culture is to worship a giant monkey, well then, you're all going to hell because that giant monkey is God and he told us that our sacrifices of bananas was a true practice.

 

[m3at]

There is no way to prove he/she/they do NOT exist either. Assuming something is not there because there is no evidence (or you do not accept any evidence as valid) is still an assumption. An unprovable theory on both sides.

I totally agree. It's arrogant on either side to say there is or isn't a God. The fact is, no one really knows.

 

[Jerry Lundegaard]

Here is a picture that depicts what I'm really trying to say:

I totally get it. We can't be sure if that robed Dinosaur is named Jesus or if that man with the nice hair (pause) is using Jesus Christ's name in vain? Furthermore, we can't be sure if the Dinosaur is actually laughing out loud or if it verbally articulated "L-O-L". We just can never be too sure!