What's new

Trade deadline discussion


KqWIN

Well-Known Member
The trade value comment... in a perfectly efficient market I would agree... but what I think is that you can get something that helps defense with Joe and stuff or JC and stuff... what you can get for Bogey will not be a lot more than what those offers will fetch. The offense downgrade (and yes there will be an offensive downgrade) would be more significant than the defensive upgrade. Swapping out JC might even become an upgrade on both sides of the ball. Folks around here lump in Joe/JC/Bogey like they all equal... it really isn't close. Bogey is on par with Mike or damn close to it.

The trade match with Bogey is tough to find... please come up some realistic hypotheticals and you quickly see the issues. Teams with good two way wings are likely contending and not willing to make a swap. Teams in rebuilding mode or up and comers aren't necessarily able to offer what we want and don't necessarily value what Bogey brings. Swapping Bogey for Hart or RoCo or some of this other stuff is not an upgrade overall. They are solid defenders but not impact defenders... in certain matchups Bogey is a solid defender... but he's always an impactful offensive player.

The Denver series really is not a good sample to base anything off of. That was a ****** defense in an empty arena. Its not surprising we survived when Donovan scored 100 pts a game... it also won't happen again. We were +14 per ORTG last year in the playoffs with Bogey on the court... but yeah I'm sure Niang would have been exactly the same... -10 with Joe... -14 with JC. Niang -9 (Niang was tethered to Rudy so it isn't just a Rudy thing).

I just don't think we are viewing Bogey with the proper respect at all.

If you think they all have similar trade value, sure. Why wouldn't you trade the guy whose worse. I'm just not going to be that guy who will say this guy is way better than the other two, but their trade value is the same. I think Bogey has a much higher perception around the league than both and is clearly having the best season out of all of them. The guy we've been talking about over and over is Smart. There aren't realistic deals for anyone at this point with options so limited, but if Bogey can get you Smart I would do it. I would also do it for Hart, but I think that less realistic at this point. He is having a great year and NOP isn't that dumb where they can't recognize it. If the difference between getting Smart and not is the difference between Bogey and Ingles/Clarkson, we should do it.

I'm not just basing it off of the DEN series. We've been this way for years. It's more often been Conley that's been out, but I don't see a reason to think that we couldn't do the same thing if we had Conley and Bogey was out. I do think you're highly overrated Bogey if you think the offense is going to have a collapse without him. Likewise if you think Bogey is on par with Mike. I don't think it's close on either end. As a total player, Mike is miles ahead of Bogey. I don't base my assessment purely off numbers, but the numbers would highly agree with it. The more analytical you get with Bogey the worse the case gets for him.
 


Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
Which insider reports?
No specific report... this is what Tony Jones has been saying in recent interviews... Larsen as well... not sure if I heard it from Locke as well. That is about as transparent as our media will be on the team. Everyone except Andy is a softee homer. Spence also mentioned it for whatever that is worth.

He's also played just a ton of basketball the last 2 years.... he looks visibly heavier through the mid-section... he is moving worse than he has in other years... he's old AF and he has hinted that he's made enough money and has strong desires to be back in Australia as soon as his career ends. I doubt he sticks around to make the minimum next year... he likely has some cool basketball opportunities in Australia... not sure he can stretch his career out to get another Olympic run in. Sucks but I think he is walking through the finish line tape this year.
 

campaignist

Well-Known Member
If you think they all have similar trade value, sure. Why wouldn't you trade the guy whose worse. I'm just not going to be that guy who will say this guy is way better than the other two, but their trade value is the same. I think Bogey has a much higher perception around the league than both and is clearly having the best season out of all of them. The guy we've been talking about over and over is Smart. There aren't realistic deals for anyone at this point with options so limited, but if Bogey can get you Smart I would do it. I would also do it for Hart, but I think that less realistic at this point. He is having a great year and NOP isn't that dumb where they can't recognize it. If the difference between getting Smart and not is the difference between Bogey and Ingles/Clarkson, we should do it.

I'm not just basing it off of the DEN series. We've been this way for years. It's more often been Conley that's been out, but I don't see a reason to think that we couldn't do the same thing if we had Conley and Bogey was out. I do think you're highly overrated Bogey if you think the offense is going to have a collapse without him. Likewise if you think Bogey is on par with Mike. I don't think it's close on either end. As a total player, Mike is miles ahead of Bogey. I don't base my assessment purely off numbers, but the numbers would highly agree with it. The more analytical you get with Bogey the worse the case gets for him.
Bogey for Smart is a terrible idea. You would have easily the smallest lineup in the league, with a 6’3” power forward. A tiny backcourt is bad enough, an even tinier frontcourt is an absolute nightmare.
 

KqWIN

Well-Known Member
Bogey for Smart is a terrible idea. You would have easily the smallest lineup in the league, with a 6’3” power forward. A tiny backcourt is bad enough, an even tinier frontcourt is an absolute nightmare.

In what ways is Bogey functionally bigger than Smart on defense. Bogey gives no big man value outside of his post ups.
 

fallenchicken

Well-Known Member
If the Jazz traded Bogie for Smart that would be criminal. The league would have to investigate. It would mean Ainge was undercover and still working for Boston.
 

KqWIN

Well-Known Member
If the Jazz traded Bogie for Smart that would be criminal. The league would have to investigate. It would mean Ainge was undercover and still working for Boston.

Every metric has Smart > Bogey and the consensus player rankings also have Smart > Bogey. Sometimes you've got to get out of your own bubble.
 

campaignist

Well-Known Member
In what ways is Bogey functionally bigger than Smart on defense. Bogey gives no big man value outside of his post ups.
Bruh. If you're insisting on trading Bogey, at least get someone who plays his position. Harrison Barnes, Tobias Harris, whoever. This
puts even more pressure on Rudy on the inside. Give me one example of any starting lineup like this having success. I'm talking 30+ minutes per game, not situational.
 

campaignist

Well-Known Member
I really just don't understand why people are so focused Smart. He's not a need for us at all. If he was on our roster, you'd be trying to trade him.
It's kinda like being at last call at a bar-yeah, maybe he's not the prettiest in the room, but the other options are terrible.
 

kabenac

Well-Known Member
Marcus Smart's offensive stats aren't pretty and he's somewhat injury-prone but he's a top-10 defender in this league.
 

KqWIN

Well-Known Member
Bruh. If you're insisting on trading Bogey, at least get someone who plays his position. Harrison Barnes, Tobias Harris, whoever. This
puts even more pressure on Rudy on the inside. Give me one example of any starting lineup like this having success. I'm talking 30+ minutes per game, not situational.

Smart is not "smaller" than Bogdanovic on the court. If Bogey could do things defensively with his size that Smart couldn't it would be one thing, but he can't. It doesn't matter to me if a guy is 6'8 or 6'3 if the guy who is 6'3 plays bigger on the court. We would have a size problem with Smart, but we already have a size problem with Bogey. It doesn't get worse with Smart.
 


Top