Trade deadline discussion

[campaignist]

Just lotto protect it for five years.

They've given up so many firsts the last few years that it would have to be a no-brainer trade for me. If it was something we were really confident would get us to the Finals this year, I'd do it.
Otherwise, they can't waste anymore.

 

[NAOS]

Not sure Jazz should be giving up future 1st round picks
If they fail in 4 years they are a lottery team with no first round picks
Jazz better be certain they can win a title next 2-3 years

We can be certain that IF we’re going to win a title, then it has to be now. Basically. Maybe next year.

If trading another first is something we need to do to increase our title-odds by even just 5ish%, then I think I’m fully on board. Push all the way in, because that’s basically the only way to do it.

 

[NAOS]

They've given up so many firsts the last few years that it would have to be a no-brainer trade for me. If it was something we were really confident would get us to the Finals this year, I'd do it.
Otherwise, they can't waste anymore.

What is that confidence? How is it measured?

They need to push all the way in. They know what they lack.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Not sure Jazz should be giving up future 1st round picks
If they fail in 4 years they are a lottery team with no first round picks
Jazz better be certain they can win a title next 2-3 years

Better to try and fail than fail by not trying.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

Wouldn’t we pick up some picks in a potential tear down this offseason? Like if we flame out in the second round again, I suspect it’ll be Extreme Makeover: Utah Jazz edition, if not a total rebuild.

 

[infection]

Some mentality difference…

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Better to try and fail than fail by not trying.

Ehhhhh you can try and not mortgage your whole future.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Jazz are 0-3 when they rest Mike Conley. In these games, the Jazz have relied on Jordan Clarkson to provide more offense and instead he's stunk it up. That was the case in Chicago, Orlando and now at home against Washington. Clarkson was 1-10 from 3pt last night. He's now shooting 30% from 3pt for the season. FYI, Eric Paschall is also shooting 30% on 3s this season.

 

[NAOS]

Some mentality difference…

Imagine anyone on this team doing that. Yup, can’t.

 

[infection]

Imagine anyone on this team doing that. Yup, can’t.

I could see a number of apologists saying they don’t need it, it’s unnecessary, and that our eyes are on a title and not the regular season. Oh, and we just had an 8 game win streak.

 

[LogGrad98]

Some mentality difference…

 

[LogGrad98]

I could see a number of apologists saying they don’t need it, it’s unnecessary, and that our eyes are on a title and not the regular season. Oh, and we just had an 8 game win streak.

Yep. Same team and everything.

 

[Ujfanatic]

We can be certain that IF we’re going to win a title, then it has to be now. Basically. Maybe next year.

If trading another first is something we need to do to increase our title-odds by even just 5ish%, then I think I’m fully on board. Push all the way in, because that’s basically the only way to do it.

I hope they get a 3 season window, including this one, but you may be right. I am 100% on board with the team going all in for players that legitimately increase their title odds. As someone else said, they can put protections on future draft picks.

The Jazz need the equivalent of trading Bledsoe for Holiday. The Bucks definitely overpaid, but that’s what it took because they didn’t have the assets other teams had to offer.

To me, that is Bogey and Ingles (or Clarkson) and picks plus pick swaps for Siakam. Grant is less exciting to me but presumably wouldn’t take as much to get either.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Here’s the issue with the “all-in” move. We can give a pick that is like 4-5 years out but it can’t have really strict protections because the other bligation can’t float out there for more than 5 years ( I think) so if it was lotto protected for a year and that year we were in the lotto… we’ll tough **** trading team you get nothing. So how valuable is that pick in the distance and protected? It’s not valuable… so you have to remove protections. Even then Phoenix and GS have their picks so if this great deal comes along for a wing do we think we will be the highest bidder?

What if we get a mild upgrade? Does that change our ultimate result? I’m gonna go ahead and say nah. Would we get the same bump by finding something on the scrap heap? Maybe?

Basically we are kinda stuck… no need in making it worse by trying for an upgrade by throwing another first out the window.

 

[KqWIN]

Here’s the issue with the “all-in” move. We can give a pick that is like 4-5 years out but it can’t have really strict protections because the other bligation can’t float out there for more than 5 years ( I think) so if it was lotto protected for a year and that year we were in the lotto… we’ll tough **** trading team you get nothing. So how valuable is that pick in the distance and protected? It’s not valuable… so you have to remove protections. Even then Phoenix and GS have their picks so if this great deal comes along for a wing do we think we will be the highest bidder?

What if we get a mild upgrade? Does that change our ultimate result? I’m gonna go ahead and say nah. Would we get the same bump by finding something on the scrap heap? Maybe?

Basically we are kinda stuck… no need in making it worse by trying for an upgrade by throwing another first out the window.

In terms of winning a championship, I personally don’t see how a pick 5 years down the line will help us more than it does now. We won’t be competing for a championship then. We haven’t had a better chance to win in decades and it took a ton to get here.

To me this a once in a several decade type window, and it won’t be open in 2027 or whenever that pick comes. If you can make the team better now for it, I say do it because I’m not expecting our next opportunity to come for many, many years.

 

[Agent#00]

Teams have won titles with DPOY
Jordan, Draymond, Giannis, Hakeem, Wallace, Leonard, to name some

detroit 2004 lineup was bad ***. they were defensive minded, long and can guard any positions. they were not built with Ben Wallace in mind unlike Jazz, we are built around Rudy.

Billups
Prince
Rasheed Wallace
Ben Wallace
Rip Hamilton

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

In terms of winning a championship, I personally don’t see how a pick 5 years down the line will help us more than it does now. We won’t be competing for a championship then. We haven’t had a better chance to win in decades and it took a ton to get here.

To me this a once in a several decade type window, and it won’t be open in 2027 or whenever that pick comes. If you can make the team better now for it, I say do it because I’m not expecting our next opportunity to come for many, many years.

Cool but let’s realize that we are giving away what would need to be basically an unprotected pick years from now when Mike, Rudy, and Don likely are no longer on the team… and we are likely doing so to get an upgrade from a 6-7% chance of winning a title to a 8-9% chance. If anything truly needle moving becomes available we can be outbid so easily it’s comical. We are at the luxury art auction with a $100 in our wallet.

When Gordon left I thought we were cooked and would need to rebuild but we bounced back. In 2 years when we need to rebuild we need every shot at getting a superstar… those only come in the draft and you don’t always get multiple chances at that star. We’d be giving one of those shots away… and likely getting the value others could by giving away 1 or 2 late firsts. A team giving up something that moves the needle won’t value a 2027 pick if it has protections… we won’t get to have our cake and eat it too.

 

[NAOS]

Here’s the issue with the “all-in” move. We can give a pick that is like 4-5 years out but it can’t have really strict protections because the other bligation can’t float out there for more than 5 years ( I think) so if it was lotto protected for a year and that year we were in the lotto… we’ll tough **** trading team you get nothing. So how valuable is that pick in the distance and protected? It’s not valuable… so you have to remove protections. Even then Phoenix and GS have their picks so if this great deal comes along for a wing do we think we will be the highest bidder?

What if we get a mild upgrade? Does that change our ultimate result? I’m gonna go ahead and say nah. Would we get the same bump by finding something on the scrap heap? Maybe?

Basically we are kinda stuck… no need in making it worse by trying for an upgrade by throwing another first out the window.

I hear you. And that’s a good point RE: GSW and PHX (and their cupboard of assets vs ours). But I don’t think our team can get over the top as presently constituted. So, as much as I don’t like sending out another pick, I for it in our circumstances.

 

[LoPo]

I just don't see one attainable guy who masks our issues with perimeter defense.

At the end of the day, we will roll into the 4th quarters of playoff games hoping that Conley, Don and Rudy can combine well enough defensively to address the pick-n-roll while the opponent has 5 shooters on the floor.

We need Rudy, three really good perimeter defenders and Don playing at an above average rate defensively to win a title. One guy won't solve our issues.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[LogGrad98]

I hear you. And that’s a good point RE: GSW and PHX (and their cupboard of assets vs ours). But I don’t think our team can get over the top as presently constituted. So, as much as I don’t like sending out another pick, I for it in our circumstances.

I feel this way as well.

I will one-up this and say that if Ainge is going to try his magic here I hope he legit swings for the fences, LA-style. I do not think a tweak is going to make us significantly better, but it will cost us picks or other assets we can ill afford at this point. So if you are going to go for it, then really go for it. Move 1/3 of the team and bring in a third star, or something. If you are going to burn the pick, then burn it for real. I don't mean trade any of the core people, but move anyone not in the starting 5 as well as Bogey or O'Neal (they are both expendable), and hell I would not mind if they moved Conley somehow to get us a bigger defensive-minded PG or something.

But to use up picks to get a minor upgrade over, say Bogey (or anyone else really, Joe, Royce, JC, whatever), when we still need to wait on them to get acclimated and then hope they produce better results that Bogey would have with his familiarity with the system, well that is just dumb.