Trade deadline discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think Royce is the blind spot. We’re so occupied with saying how underrated he is and how he’s what we need more of that we don’t see a larger picture. Last year he was our second in MPG and this year third. I don’t know of any championship team that one of the largest floor occupiers has been so limited. It’s one thing if he’s Bruce Bowen, but we really need to stop pretending he’s Bruce Bowen. It doesn’t mean Royce can’t be an important part of a championship team, but averaging north of 35 mpg in the playoffs is way too much.

And honestly, when we’re looking at a guard matchup, we talk about not making whatever change it is because of us needing Royce’s defense. On a small guard it really doesn’t matter who is defending them. Royce is just as bad as any of our bad perimeter defenders. One reason I would advocate Joe in closing lineups though I know most have a lot of anxieties with not having Royce close. I think having the “low usage guy” in the closing lineup helps facilitate our default to Donovan-ball.

Joe has looked so cooked on defense though. Still very functional on offense because he's such a good shooter and passer.

Royce one on one on a quick guard is an issue but he's better than the other guys because at least they can't just shoot right over him without feeling him a little. He also gets steal and rebounds which are critical to closing out those possessions.

Could Royce's minutes come down a bit in favor of a better defender? Sure... I do think that defender would be a worse shooter and less functional overall. Does that 5-6 minutes help Royce have more gas and be a little better though... might help.

I've dumped on Forrest but his on/off splits are wild. Need some more minutes to see what is real and what is noise but maybe he is more of a stopper than Royce and should eat up some of those minutes.

 

[campaignist]

It feels wild to say but JC is the better player right now and the better defender. Joe looks abysmal out there defensively. He is still good when he pick and rolls but it feels like it's his only use right now. He hasn't been making quick passes or finding Rudy outside of PnRs as he used to. I am getting sad talking about it. Another tough proposition would be to trade him. It could be catastrophic off-court but his on-court value doesn't really justify it either.

I'm still really really loathe to trade Joe, when he's playing well he is crucial to what they do. And trading him would of course be a huge off court negative.

However, this isn't a good analogy talent wise of course, but Demar DeRozen is the best and most loved Raptor of all time. They had the balls to trade him for a clear upgrade.
We know how that played out. If you think an Ingles trade can put you over the top, and get you to the Finals or beyond, you probably have to do it.
Is that kind of trade out there? No idea.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, it's complicated. Especially if you think it has to be a starter. It would have to be clear upgrades to Royce or Bojan, not easy to come by. I am thinking more along the minimum guys or House. Having Rudy Gay helps a little bit. We don't necessarily need a 30 minute guy that can defend since we also have him.

I think first to be out of rotation is Ingles but you could probably get away with having Royce and Ingles minutes down and just incorporating someone like House.

It feels wild to say but JC is the better player right now and the better defender. Joe looks abysmal out there defensively. He is still good when he pick and rolls but it feels like it's his only use right now. He hasn't been making quick passes or finding Rudy outside of PnRs as he used to. I am getting sad talking about it. Another tough proposition would be to trade him. It could be catastrophic off-court but his on-court value doesn't really justify it either.

I honestly think we should pick up House and rest both Ingles and Conley... See if we can help Joe recapture some of his old defense. He may just be winding things down and not as motivated right now. He looks a little more out of shape than normal (not saying he was ever out of shape he just has that look).

I don't know if I have the stomach for a joe trade but of all the rotation players he has looked the worst on defense. Rudy Gay got cooked a couple times on the perimeter but he provides other value that Joe doesn't. If we had 30 or 31 YO Ingles right now we'd be in such great shape... maybe some rest could get him there... at least some nights.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Royce way too disrespected here lmao. He's a perfect starter for this team. We don't need to upgrade Royce at all. We dont need to cut his minutes at all. We need to upgrade/change focus at Bojan's spot or Clarkson's spot, or get a player who can absorb minutes from those players.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Royce is a dude I'm going to want to play damn near 38 mpg in the playoffs. I just want to give him a defensive partner to help him make 20 minutes or so much easier on him so he can continue to be dominant in his role.

 

[Hekate]

Royce is a dude I'm going to want to play damn near 38 mpg in the playoffs. I just want to give him a defensive partner to help him make 20 minutes or so much easier on him so he can continue to be dominant in his role.

38 minutes a little too much but I get your point. I feel if he wasn't always the on-ball defender he would be much more impactful playing as the nail defender, playing the passing lanes, helping etc. I have watched GSW the last few games and i felt he would be much more appreciated and impactful there.

 

[Hekate]

I'm still really really loathe to trade Joe, when he's playing well he is crucial to what they do. And trading him would of course be a huge off court negative.

However, this isn't a good analogy talent wise of course, but Demar DeRozen is the best and most loved Raptor of all time. They had the balls to trade him for a clear upgrade.
We know how that played out. If you think an Ingles trade can put you over the top, and get you to the Finals or beyond, you probably have to do it.
Is that kind of trade out there? No idea.

Yeah, it feels blasphemous tbh.

This is how I would feel.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Royce way too disrespected here lmao. He's a perfect starter for this team. We don't need to upgrade Royce at all. We dont need to cut his minutes at all. We need to upgrade/change focus at Bojan's spot or Clarkson's spot, or get a player who can absorb minutes from those players.

I think Royce and Bogey are both equally disrespected around here. The volume of scoring he gives us as a perimeter guy along with the amazing efficiency is part of what is leading the historic offense. The defensive upgrade would have to be huge to compensate for the almost certain offensive downgrade.

I think the obvious pivot point is JC... gives us lots of volume but is so inefficient. I think they would move Joe but the deal would have to be perfect... for off the court reasons partly... for money reasons as well.

 

[Ujfanatic]

I’m not 100% certain on the details of what draft assets we can/ cannot include given the Stepien rule, but keep in mind we can add pick swaps as well. That incentivizes the other team but ensures we do still have picks. I believe we could do a trade today that included one 1st and two pick swaps.

I agree completely that it would have to be a player truly worth it and outside Siakam I am hard pressed to think of others. However, I think our current title odds is closer to 0% than 5%.

I do agree Phoenix or Golden State could outbid us. However, I’m not sure Golden State wants to trade Wiggins at this point given how well he is playing but he would have to be included to match salaries.

Phoenix could probably get there but I think they would have to trade three, possibly four players to match salary unless they included Ayton. They also already have big money out to Paul, Booker, and Bridges. Not sure their owner will take on Siskam’s contract.

I think underperforming teams like Portland are probably the bigger threat. I could also see the Mavs going after Siakam.

 

[LogGrad98]

Yeah, it feels blasphemous tbh.

This is how I would feel.

School shootings have worked their way to preschool now? What the actual ****? Looks photoshopped but...day-um.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I’m not 100% certain on the details of what draft assets we can/ cannot include given the Stepien rule, but keep in mind we can add pick swaps as well. That incentivizes the other team but ensures we do still have picks. I believe we could do a trade today that included one 1st and two pick swaps.

I agree completely that it would have to be a player truly worth it and outside Siakam I am hard pressed to think of others. However, I think our current title odds is closer to 0% than 5%.

I do agree Phoenix or Golden State could outbid us. However, I’m not sure Golden State wants to trade Wiggins at this point given how well he is playing but he would have to be included to match salaries.

Phoenix could probably get there but I think they would have to trade three, possibly four players to match salary unless they included Ayton. They also already have big money out to Paul, Booker, and Bridges. Not sure their owner will take on Siskam’s contract.

I think underperforming teams like Portland are probably the bigger threat. I could also see the Mavs going after Siakam.

I thought about swaps as well... we have like a 2025 second rounder and some other kinda crappy second rounders... If we wanted a guy like Yuta giving Toronto a 2023 or 2025 1st round pick swap that turns into a second round pick could provide some extra juice to a normal second round pick type of deal.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think the only reasonably possible deal I will put a pick into is to turn JC and Udoka (for salary) into Marcus Smart. Would need to be a three team deal imo where we get an expiring contract and something of value from another team. So they could get expiring salary a first, and some other draft assets or young players (whatever we got for JC).