campaignist
Well-Known Member
It's kinda like being at last call at a bar-yeah, maybe he's not the prettiest in the room, but the other options are terrible.
Trade deadline discussion
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Smart is not "smaller" than Bogdanovic on the court. If Bogey could do things defensively with his size that Smart couldn't it would be one thing, but he can't. It doesn't matter to me if a guy is 6'8 or 6'3 if the guy who is 6'3 plays bigger on the court. We would have a size problem with Smart, but we already have a size problem with Bogey. It doesn't get worse with Smart.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
That’s the trick, is balancing a teams aspirations for championship status and Towing the company line. There is a **** ton of luck when it comes to small markets. You aren’t signing the top stars, the LBJ’s Durant’s and Harden’s of the world. As a small market, you can get lucky and have a Greek Freak fall in your lap at pick 15 or in the Spurs case have your Star get injured, tank the season, and have Tim Duncan come in the same draft. I’m just not sure what trade puts the jazz over the top, unless you want to explore Don trades, and even then you probably aren’t getting fair value. I think every year all or most teams are open for those kind of trades, but because the players basically run the league those trades are only available for a select few teams
While the jazz want to win a title, those franchises changing moves fairly present themselves even to the Lakers, at the same time the jazz want to at least stay relevant while they try to get lucky, in the case of a small market team, sometimes that’s their only recourse.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Question, do you think Smart makes us championship contenders, is that a franchise defining move?
LoPo
Well-Known Member
If we got Smart for Clarkson straight up, we have a shot which I don't believe we do right now. Everybody would have to be healthy and play to potential. Don and Bojan would have to step up to an average level of defense (which in the playoffs this is something they usually do). Joe, Royce and Rudy Gay provide a very dynamic bench unit while Quin needs to mold Paschall into our bench stretch 5.
I don't think Boston even entertains that trade, but that trade could be the missing piece.
Handlogten's Heros
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So you can't do Bogey for Hart or Bogey for Smart... tell me the Bogey trades we could do then...
In a world where you can turn players into units of value on both sides of the ball... I agree trade Bogey's 80 offensive units and 10 defensive units for player that gives you the inverse. Since we actually have to make moves in a realistic market i think any Bogey trade nets you more than what you trade JC and stuff or Ingles and stuff for... but the difference is likely not going to be that big. It also almost requires two trades if you move Bogey so that we can rebalance the roster. Once you put the fake trades together you will see that.
So if you can't get someone in Smart's tier then you are shopping in the Anderson Roco tier... I think you can get that player with JC and stuff or Ingles and stuff... and you are much better off.
Advanced metrics are great but they have worked against Smart as much as they have loved him in years past... they also tell us we'd be better off cashing in Bogey or Donovan for Kenrich Williams... so sometimes the traditional stats can have value as well. Bogey is top 20 in TS% in the league... for a wing scoring near 20 pts per game that's pretty rare air... its also a stat we lead the league in and is a huge reason for our offensive success... he's also extremely durable... he can also ramp up his usage... selling a guy off like that for Kyle Anderson is cute but it won't be a net win.
Ingles/Clarkson/Butler/2026 1st for Jerami Grant.
fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
Probably not enough to get the trade done, but this is what the move looks like that actually gives us a better chance at the chip. If you trade a core piece (mitchell, conley, bogey, gobert) then you're probably getting worse. Players don't get traded for equally valuable players--that's not how the nba trade market works. You trade future pieces for win-now pieces. That's why a Simmons trade has been so difficult for Philly--they are trading a max guy but need Win now, max guy piece back. Usually when max guys get traded, the team is rebuilding and looking for future pieces. But all the players they want to trade Simmons for are also on teams looking to win now.
So i think the centerpiece of any trade we do is going to be around that draft pick and Ingles' expiring. I don't think we are going to be able to find a trade where we swap role players with another good team. Plus we traded bogey and got worse that would be a total disaster for the team and administration, even more so than if they kept the roster as is and lost again--you got to factor in people wanting to keep their jobs.
If there's no trade, there's no trade. I'm not saying to trade Bogey for the sake of trading him. But I would do those trades if they were available, and that's the point. This "TELL ME THE TRADE SPECIFICS" schtick has no bearing on my opinion of Bogey and who I would trade him for. If you don't think we should trade him for those two or how he stacks up versus JC/Ingles in a trade proposition, that is our disagreement. If you're saying no trade is available for Bogey, we have no disagreement. I have said many times that I do not believe a trade is out there. I also don't think a trade is out there for JC, but I understand why people want to trade him.
Like I said, my opinion isn't solely based on advanced stats. I'm just saying they overwhelming agree with my assessment. "Advanced stats" is a broad term anyways, but I'm talking about the catch all stats. They aren't perfect, but if you disagree with them I think there needs to be a compelling argument as to why. I don't see it. I would agree that he is a pretty terrible defender. The complete lack of rebounding, defensive playmaking, and off ball defensive ability is not negated by his sometimes ok man to man defense against some matchups. That's the biggest reason why the metrics don't love him and I have to agree with that assessment on him.
Offensively he is a positive and a big one, but this team is loaded and I do not believe the offensive would come crashing down like you seem to be implying. I do question his ability to ramp up his usage in the playoffs because that was not the case in the LAC series when Conley was out. His usage was down and his 2FG% was very low. He played great because he shot the 3 ball great, but I'm not convinced you can add more "self created" Bogey possessions and see good success. He's gotten better, but we all know he is loosey goosey with the ball and relying on him to create more offense on his own is shaky. That's where he is not even remotely close to Conley as a player.
Again, I'm not saying the he's not a great offensive player or even that we won't have a drop off. But given our roster composition I think defense would go a lot further than offense. Same goes with JC and Ingles. We are at a huge surplus on offense while in desperate need of more defensive talent.
Kind of surprised, and kind of not.
It's difficult to find trades for any of our players at this point. Ingles is probably the most like because 1) we already almost traded him and 2) he has an expiring deal.
This is one of the more realistic trades posted. I think CLE is giving too much, but they have enough picks to set the value right whatever that may be. I wonder if CLE would prefer Joe or JC. Joe would be perfect for their team, but JC is more of a future play.
Dawg Andy Larsen suggested a Josh Richardson for Ingles deal but we have LoPo here swapping Ingles for Conley and only adding Grant Williams. 
The NBA’s trade deadline is less than a month away. Here are 4 trade ideas for the Utah Jazz to consider
The Jazz, it seems, could use a little bit of a shakeup. What could they get done? Here are four trade ideas — not real-life rumors, but just concepts — for Jazz fans to consider.
This is actually an interesting trade Andy suggests:
This move actually serves a few purposes.
This move is also like getting a second rounder back in the deal because we'll end up saving the one that we'll have to send out to salary dump Udoka later.The NBA’s trade deadline is less than a month away. Here are 4 trade ideas for the Utah Jazz to consider
The Jazz, it seems, could use a little bit of a shakeup. What could they get done? Here are four trade ideas — not real-life rumors, but just concepts — for Jazz fans to consider.www.sltrib.com
This is actually an interesting trade Andy suggests:
This move actually serves a few purposes.
Any trade we make to improve our title contention odds has to consider the closing lineup. Getting Smart as a 6th man would be great, but if you close with him who is sitting? Personally I am not interested in Smart as a replacement for any of our starters.
Ultimately the Jazz need a legit two way player who does not compromise in age, size, or athleticism. Unfortunately I have no idea who that player is. Short of that, I think we're looking for what we've always been looking for: A stretch 4 that is big enough to be a secondary rim protector.
Ultimately the Jazz need a legit two way player who does not compromise in age, size, or athleticism. Unfortunately I have no idea who that player is. Short of that, I think we're looking for what we've always been looking for: A stretch 4 that is big enough to be a secondary rim protector.
Royce would be the one sitting.