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Trade deadline discussion

Dumping Ingles' contract into OKC's space, making the pick they owe OKC totally unprotected, getting Kenrich Williams, then trying to be really good until at least 2024 is what feels like a smart way to do a lot of things all at once.

Hopefully they buy him out and then he can still hang out with the team (after getting his permission, of course).

But make no mistake, this team has to figure out how to be a serious playoff team for at least that long and I'm not sure how much more time Bogey and Mike have. Unless the Jazz know they can extend the window beyond 2024, they should not trade any more of their 1sts unless they are highly protected/fake. I think the full-blown rebuild happens in '24 or '25.
 
Everyone seems to think that Roco sucks because he’s not prime Ron Artest. He’s maybe slipped a bit, but he’d be the best defender on our team besides Rudy by a mile. We know how bad the defense is…and yet the thought of trying to improve it with well established great defenders like Roco or Smart gets everyone so queasy.

If you don’t think those are great defenders and/or won’t change the defense, to each their own. But understand you’re rolling the dice again with a team that completely embarrassed 2 years in a row and has only looked worse since then. Don’t complain about the defense if you aren’t willing to put serious chips on the board to try and fix it. We’re gonna regret trading Bogey….or we’re gonna regret giving up a 2028 pick. Yeah, maybe. But it’s highly likely we’re going to regret wasting this opportunity too. This team isn’t worth preserving. Horribly imbalanced roster.

As bad as things are right now, this is still likely the best chance to win the title in decades. Having Mitchell+Gobert on the same roster is incredibly rare and we don’t know how long that will last. It could seriously end this summer for all we know. There is no rebuilding, the time is now. The entire rotation is old outside of Don and you can’t flip everyone to extend that window. Even if you could, how long until Don demands out? He’s not waiting for another cycle of young players to develop. It’s all in right now.
 
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KqWIN said:
Everyone seems to think that Roco sucks because he’s not prime Ron Artest. He’s maybe slipped a bit, but he’d be the best defender on our team besides Rudy by a mile. We know how bad the defense is…and yet the thought of trying to improve it with well established great defenders like Roco or Smart gets everyone so queasy.

If you don’t think those are great defenders and/or won’t change the defense, to each their own. But understand you’re rolling the dice again with a team that completely embarrassed 2 years in a row and has only looked worse since then. Don’t complain about the defense if you aren’t willing to put serious chips on the board to try and fix it.

As bad as things are right now, this is still likely the best chance to win the title in decades. Having Mitchell+Gobert on the same roster is incredibly rare and we don’t know how long that will last. It could seriously end this summer for all we know. There is no rebuilding, the time is now. The entire rotation is old outside of Don and you can’t flip everyone to extend that window. Even if you could, how long until Don demands out? He’s not waiting for another cycle of young players to develop. It’s all in right now.
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I'd be fine with adding Roco, but I definitely don't think he's worth a first round pick, especially considering he's on an expiring contract.
 
Jingled said:
I'd be fine with adding Roco, but I definitely don't think he's worth a first round pick, especially considering he's on an expiring contract.
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Roco was just traded for two first round picks. He obviously had more years on his deal at the time, but that caliber of player is able to yield a first round pick time and time again…even as a rental. Roco is the mostly highly valued type of role player in the league.

2028 might as well not exist to me. We won’t be contenders by then and I’m not expecting to have a better Jazz team in decades. Protect the pick and get the deal done if it’s available. The chances of that pick contributing more to contending team is extremely slim.

Teams tank year after year to have stars like Rudy and Don on the same team and they aren’t even guaranteed to get one. I don’t think people recognize how special the position we are is. I’m using everything on the team with Rudy and Don on it because there’s no guarantee that it will last much longer and who knows when we’ll get a team this good again.
 
KqWIN said:
Roco was just traded for two first round picks. He obviously had more years on his deal at the time, but that caliber of player is able to yield a first round pick time and time again…even as a rental. Roco is the mostly highly valued type of role player in the league.

2028 might as well not exist to me. We won’t be contenders by then and I’m not expecting to have a better Jazz team in decades. Protect the pick and get the deal done if it’s available. The chances of that pick contributing more to contending team is extremely slim.

Teams tank year after year to have stars like Rudy and Don on the same team and they aren’t even guaranteed to get one. I don’t think people recognize how special the position we are is. I’m using everything on the team with Rudy and Don on it because there’s no guarantee that it will last much longer and who knows when we’ll get a team this good again.
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I thought that was a major overpay at the time by the Blazers for Covington and it turns out that it was. I also think a first round pick for an expiring Covington would be an overpay and I seriously doubt Ainge would actually do it.
 
Jingled said:
I thought that was a major overpay at the time by the Blazers for Covington and it turns out that it was. I also think a first round pick for an expiring Covington would be an overpay and I seriously doubt Ainge would actually do it.
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Don’t see how it’s an overpay based on the history of this league. Good, starter level vet that everyone needs has also been a first round pick…even as a rental. We’re also talking about a 2028 protected pick….which has way less trade value than a pick that comes up sooner.

If you’re not willing to put that pick or Bogey on the table, I don’t think you can complain about the defense because you weren’t willing to put pieces on the table that could actually address the issue. Our offense is so damn good. Even through this horrific stretch we’ve played like a top 10 offense. Don out, Rudy out, tough schedule, Bogey not playing well…we can still score. There may be regret in trading a pick 6 years in the future….but I fear we will regret not even attempting to address the defense when we’re so dominant on offense and have Don+Rudy still in uniform.

If we’re being honest, the only trades I expect Ainge to make are almost very good trades or more cash money savings for Ryan Smith. That’s all we’ve seen from these two lately.
 
KqWIN said:
Don’t see how it’s an overpay based on the history of this league. Good, starter level vet that everyone needs has also been a first round pick…even as a rental. We’re also talking about a 2028 protected pick….which has way less trade value than a pick that comes up sooner.

If you’re not willing to put that pick or Bogey on the table, I don’t think you can complain about the defense because you weren’t willing to put pieces on the table that could actually address the issue. Our offense is so damn good. Even through this horrific stretch we’ve played like a top 10 offense. Don out, Rudy out, tough schedule, Bogey not playing well…we can still score. There may be regret in trading a pick 6 years in the future….but I fear we will regret not even attempting to address the defense when we’re so dominant on offense and have Don+Rudy still in uniform.

If we’re being honest, the only trades I expect Ainge to make are almost very good trades or more cash money savings for Ryan Smith. That’s all we’ve seen from these two lately.
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My only quibble is RoCo was traded for two firsts when he had two full seasons on his deal… he’s used up 65-75% of that value already… so a first is steep. I’d think his value is two decent seconds or a second and less returning salary so they avoid the tax. They may want to keep his bird rights to re-sign him. So a super protected future first… that turns into a second could be the ticket… what the kids call a fake first. I think it would have to be 2027. Make it top 18 protected or it becomes a second. They get to hold a presser saying they got a first… and they save a little face.
 
LoPo said:
I don't think Roco is the solution whatsoever. We will be regretting giving up a pick for him in a few months.

If you are giving up a first, be bolder. Think younger and more long term.
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Which young player who helps us win now is available for a first… I would give a fake first for RoCo but nothing more.

The CJ to NOP rumors are popping up again… They put Hart and something else in that deal… can I interest you in JC for Hart? What about JC and a fake first for Hart?
 
KqWIN said:
Everyone seems to think that Roco sucks because he’s not prime Ron Artest. He’s maybe slipped a bit, but he’d be the best defender on our team besides Rudy by a mile. We know how bad the defense is…and yet the thought of trying to improve it with well established great defenders like Roco or Smart gets everyone so queasy.

If you don’t think those are great defenders and/or won’t change the defense, to each their own. But understand you’re rolling the dice again with a team that completely embarrassed 2 years in a row and has only looked worse since then. Don’t complain about the defense if you aren’t willing to put serious chips on the board to try and fix it. We’re gonna regret trading Bogey….or we’re gonna regret giving up a 2028 pick. Yeah, maybe. But it’s highly likely we’re going to regret wasting this opportunity too. This team isn’t worth preserving. Horribly imbalanced roster.

As bad as things are right now, this is still likely the best chance to win the title in decades. Having Mitchell+Gobert on the same roster is incredibly rare and we don’t know how long that will last. It could seriously end this summer for all we know. There is no rebuilding, the time is now. The entire rotation is old outside of Don and you can’t flip everyone to extend that window. Even if you could, how long until Don demands out? He’s not waiting for another cycle of young players to develop. It’s all in right now.
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No one is saying Covington sucks, we’re saying he’s overrated. And he is. The *idea* of RoCo has been better than the *reality* for a while now, it’s why he’s been traded so often. Also, if you’re worried about the roster being old, keep in mind that he’s only four months younger than Bojan.

You’re also assuming there would be much interest from other teams in a first round pick 6 years from now. What GM besides Presti would care about a pick they may not be around long enough to use?

If you can get him for a reasonable price, then of course go for it. Let’s just not act like he’s the missing piece and has to be acquired at all costs.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
My only quibble is RoCo was traded for two firsts when he had two full seasons on his deal… he’s used up 65-75% of that value already… so a first is steep. I’d think his value is two decent seconds or a second and less returning salary so they avoid the tax. They may want to keep his bird rights to re-sign him. So a super protected future first… that turns into a second could be the ticket… what the kids call a fake first. I think it would have to be 2027. Make it top 18 protected or it becomes a second. They get to hold a presser saying they got a first… and they save a little face.
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Sure...I just think you're ignoring the history of the NBA if you think that a first, especially one 6 years out that might even be fake, is some kind of huge overpay for Roco. People are wayyy too down on him.

Through this trade deadline discussion, it's really open my eyes to how different the perception is here about certain players....especially our own. It shouldn't be a surprise because this is a Jazz centric forum, but I do think people are out of whack with their trade evaluations here.
 
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