Trade idea, Hayward to the Suns

[fishonjazz]

Here is a link to the article i got my info for the above post from. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2601948-best-and-worst-contracts-in-the-nba-right-now

BTW it has thomas as one of the best contracts in the nba. (favors too)

 

[fishonjazz]

News flash, we're probably not going to win a championship. It's ok. Maybe we should just enjoy having a good team rather than throwing it away every couple years so we can rebuild just to rebuild again and again.

I agree with this. I don't hate Hayward. Quite the opposite. If we don't trade him then I still think this team will be very good. If we did trade him I think this team would be very good. I just have a philosophy that max guys should be better than Hayward.
Wrong or right, that's my philosophy and my perogative.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Half the people here think Bradley Beal is worth a max contract, but Gordon Hayward isn't? Makes sense guys.

And it's not like we have a bad team. 10th best point differential in the league, while missing our starting PG. We played bad at the end, ran into bad luck, but we're still a damn good team overall...and y'all wanna trade away our best player? Hayward is worth a max contract with the new cap rules. He's a damn good player, easily a top 5 SF in the league. You don't let him leave.

News flash, we're probably not going to win a championship. It's ok. Maybe we should just enjoy having a good team rather than throwing it away every couple years so we can rebuild just to rebuild again and again.

I agree with most of what you say here, but important to note that not all max contracts are equal. Gtime's max will start around $31M per year... With raises it will be insane. It may be fair to question if he's worth the megamax. I think he is but the number is so high. Beal's max won't be close to that... Will start around $22M... I think it's fair to see those as comparable IF healthy.

If what we could get in trade is better than paying Gordon the megamax then it may be the right time to move him. I do think the Favors Hayward core has 2nd round of the playoffs potential... Ingram, hood, Gobert, Exum, lyles, etc may have a higher ceiling. It's a crossroads IMO, but I highly doubt we move Hayward or favors and push the window 3-5 years down the road. Prolly to risky in DL and the Millers minds.

 

[fishonjazz]

Is the idea that if we max him he won't be trade-able anymore because of his contract? I'm legitimately wondering, I haven't heard the opinion we shouldn't pay Hayward, just the worry he won't want the money and go elsewhere.

There are tons of horrible contracts in the nba. I'm sure that the teams that signed the players to those contracts either thought it was a good idea at the time or felt that they had to sign them for whatever reason.

Google "worst contracts in the nba 2016"
Some of them are basically untradeable other than a salary dump where you have to give up pieces you want to keep just to get the other team to take your bad contract.

I'm not saying this would happen if we max hayward..... But those teams that signed these "bad" contracts didn't think it would happen to them either.

To act like who cares if it doesn't work out, we will just trade him then..... It's not always that easy.

 

[fishonjazz]

Nm

 

[MDAV28]

There are tons of horrible contracts in the nba. I'm sure that the teams that signed the players to those contracts either thought it was a good idea at the time or felt that they had to sign them for whatever reason.

Google "worst contracts in the nba 2016"
Some of them are basically untradeable other than a salary dump where you have to give up pieces you want to keep just to get the other team to take your bad contract.

I'm not saying this would happen if we max hayward..... But those teams that signed these "bad" contracts didn't think it would happen to them either.

To act like who cares if it doesn't work out, we will just trade him then..... It's not always that easy.

So the answer is yes you don't think we could trade him if we sign him to a max?

 

[fishonjazz]

So the answer is yes you don't think we could trade him if we sign him to a max?

I can't say it's not possible. Salary dumps happen all the time. I don't think the team doing the dumping is usually very happy about it though.

 

[MDAV28]

I can't say it's not possible. Salary dumps happen all the time. I don't think the team doing the dumping is usually very happy about it though.

Why would it be a salary dump? Is trading Hayward right now a salary dump?

 

[fishonjazz]

Why would it be a salary dump? Is trading Hayward right now a salary dump?

Im not saying it would be. I can't predict the future. I'm saying that there is a chance that we end up regretting giving hayward max money. And if we did end up regretting it then there is a chance that trading him and his contract could be difficult to the point that we don't get equal value back for the player that we would be giving up.


I think the philosophy of another team would pay a player X amount so that means it's a good idea for us to pay them that amount and the philosophy of we can always just trade the player later if things don't work out right are two philosophies that I think are flawed due to looking at the present salaries in the nba and the salaries of the past.


Sometimes you can trade them later for good value. Sometimes you should pay market value.
Not always. That's all.

 

[Batman]

[MENTION=2434]Batman[/MENTION]
Teams should always pay players the market value right? Never say no to any amount of money if another team would pay them that amount right?

So it would be a good thing if the jazz were paying melo 27.9 million in 2018 when he is 35 years old? That's the right move.

We really would love to be in the position to be paying 17.5 million per season to kanter right.

I would love to be paying pekovic (nearly 30 years old) 35.8 million over the next three years. But we could just trade him. It's so easy.

The market determined that omer asik was worth 5 years and 53 million. The market knows all.

Not exactly. There are some players that should absolutely not get the max. I should have been more clear. My point is simply that when we signed Hayward to the Max it was the only sensible thing we could do. We couldn't just let him walk and we did not have issues with the salary cap. We have so many guys on rookie deals, I think the FO was like well, he's pretty good, he's great for our team culture and we think he's gonna get better plus Utah isn't a free agent destination so it's not like we are gonna sign a marquee free agent that is better than Hayward, so let's go for it.

Hayward is really good. If he went into free agency this summer, any contender that had the cap space to sign him to the Max would do it. If OKC had the money, they'd sign him. If the Clippers had the money, they sign him. He deserves the Max because he's really good. He's not a superstar. He's not LeBron. he's not Durant, but he is still really good and it's not like teams can get guys like Durant and James, and Steph, so if there is a guy Like Hayward that can be had for the Max, and you have the cap space, you go for it. He is absolutely a starting small forward on a title contender. He's a legit 2nd option on a title team. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying any starting caliber SF on a title team should get the Max.

I guess what I mean is that if you are a top 30-40 player in the league, you are probably gonna get a max deal. The way the league is set up, it's inevitable. That's why guys like Wes Matthews and Deandre Jordan got max deals There are 30 teams in the league. You can build a title team with 2 guys on max deals. When you have a guy like Hayward who's not a superstar but a very good player, you have to decide do I trade trade him or sign him to the max? Because letting him walk for nothing would be foolish. Jazz decided to keep him. He deserves the money he's getting.


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[Batman]

And Fishon, the fundamental question still stands. Who else were we gonna give the money too had we let him walk? Realistically l, who could we have given the money to that would have helped us win more games? Sure anything is possible, but Durant could even come to Utah. But you obviously can't say if you are the FO Durant is gonna be a free agent in '16 so let's not sign Hayward, and hope we can sign Durant in a few years from now.

The only sensible thing to do in our situation was sign him to the max, and if you think you can get a superstar by trading him then go for it, but if not you keep him and be glad you have him.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[fishonjazz]

Not exactly. There are some players that should absolutely not get the max. I should have been more clear. My point is simply that when we signed Hayward to the Max it was the only sensible thing we could do. We couldn't just let him walk and we did not have issues with the salary cap. We have so many guys on rookie deals, I think the FO was like well, he's pretty good, he's great for our team culture and we think he's gonna get better plus Utah isn't a free agent destination so it's not like we are gonna sign a marquee free agent that is better than Hayward, so let's go for it.

Hayward is really good. If he went into free agency this summer, any contender that had the cap space to sign him to the Max would do it. If OKC had the money, they'd sign him. If the Clippers had the money, they sign him. He deserves the Max because he's really good. He's not a superstar. He's not LeBron. he's not Durant, but he is still really good and it's not like teams can get guys like Durant and James, and Steph, so if there is a guy Like Hayward that can be had for the Max, and you have the cap space, you go for it. He is absolutely a starting small forward on a title contender. He's a legit 2nd option on a title team. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying any starting caliber SF on a title team should get the Max.

I guess what I mean is that if you are a top 30-40 player in the league, you are probably gonna get a max deal. The way the league is set up, it's inevitable. That's why guys like Wes Matthews and Deandre Jordan got max deals There are 30 teams in the league. You can build a title team with 2 guys on max deals. When you have a guy like Hayward who's not a superstar but a very good player, you have to decide do I trade trade him or sign him to the max? Because letting him walk for nothing would be foolish. Jazz decided to keep him. He deserves the money he's getting.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

Fair enough. I have no problem with people who want us to give Hayward the max. He is in that grayish area I think. Thinking we should max him is a valid opinion.

I think it's right that there are some who would max him and some who wouldn't. I think it's something that I hope our management debates and really researched and thinks about. It would be weird and wrong if 100% of people thought we should max him or 100% thought we shouldn't.

We are not talking about a no brainer yes we should max him like lebron or durant. And we are not talking about a no brainer no we should not max him like trevor booker or something.