Trade ideas

[HermanG]

I believe people would have liked it less because they would have seen it for what it really was: tying up the cap. Instead it was seen as JC > Gay + second rounder.

Could be. I didnt like it because of the Hendricks drafting despite the fact that I liked the prospect of Collins as a player.

 

[Step-Back Lauri]

Get the best package for Lauri, if the intention is not to make this team drastically better via trades and FA on becoming summer. For me, it makes no sense to max, or near to max Lauri, before we will see this team having one playoffs series at least with that core. And for Lauri, he either needs to not think his career but his family, to extend the contract on becoming summer.

If we are not seeing Lauri traded on this season though, I am kind of convinced he has given a verbal agreement to extend with the team, even if things look as bad next season. It seems Buddy Hield might make the playoffs this season, making Lauri the longest streak of no post-season from active players.

Also, considering his brand of offense, his late prime might not be as long than someone who are less relied on their athleticism and huge amount of work to fight themselves open as the off-ball threats. Calculating risk factors and the timeline of the team, and how the western up and coming teams are way ahead in their build, and adding the personal goals Lauri might be having... Might be the best to grab 3-4 firsts and decent young projects for him, and look ahead into late 2020s to be relevant again.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Get the best package for Lauri, if the intention is not to make this team drastically better via trades and FA on becoming summer. For me, it makes no sense to max, or near to max Lauri, before we will see this team having one playoffs series at least with that core. And for Lauri, he either needs to not think his career but his family, to extend the contract on becoming summer.

If we are not seeing Lauri traded on this season though, I am kind of convinced he has given a verbal agreement to extend with the team, even if things look as bad next season. It seems Buddy Hield might make the playoffs this season, making Lauri the longest streak of no post-season from active players.

Also, considering his brand of offense, his late prime might not be as long than someone who are less relied on their athleticism and huge amount of work to fight themselves open as the off-ball threats. Calculating risk factors and the timeline of the team, and how the western up and coming teams are way ahead in their build, and adding the personal goals Lauri might be having... Might be the best to grab 3-4 firsts and decent young projects for him, and look ahead into late 2020s to be relevant again.

Unless someone comes with a mega offer like the one I outlined from OKC in other threads... I am not moving him until the summer. We should have the space to do a re-negotiate and extend deal that will lock him in for 5 years. He will still be worth 3 firsts... and you give yourselves a few more transaction cycles to get something going. We will be bad enough to get a solid pick this year and there is no need to tank for better odds.

I think an offer of 3-4 firsts is there this summer if things aren't working out. If someone got wild and offered our version of the Haliburton trade or something like that then we need to move him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

On Locke's pod he seemed to think we are in for "the process" and that we won't be able to trade for a big enough star. Not sure how connected he is with the front office at this point but if we really are tanking for the next few years then a Lauri trade in the next 12 months may be in our future. I actually think we are more likely to do a Lavine type deal where we stretch to find another star rather than rip it to studs but everything is on the table is my guess.

 

[KqWIN]

Meh....there were many ways to get to the salary floor, and it's not hard to get matching salary in a star trade. I think the Jazz saw Collins as an asset at rock bottom and thought they could increase his value. Maybe that results in him being a good player for the Jazz, maybe that results in him being a better player and more trade value for later. What happened is that this team is in total disarray, and we just got a guy on a contract that's about double he would get on the open market. Sometimes these risks don't pan out, and right now it has not panned out with John Collins. Out of all the ways to use our cap space and reach the salary floor, this is like a D+ result.

 

[KqWIN]

On Locke's pod he seemed to think we are in for "the process" and that we won't be able to trade for a big enough star. Not sure how connected he is with the front office at this point but if we really are tanking for the next few years then a Lauri trade in the next 12 months may be in our future. I actually think we are more likely to do a Lavine type deal where we stretch to find another star rather than rip it to studs but everything is on the table is my guess.

We've been trying. Pozingis, Kuzma, Herro, Jrue. We went for these second tier star guys (don't know if all of them even fit that category, just didn't get one. I feel like it's fine to wait until the right deal comes, but there also isn't an infinite amount of time to wait.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Meh....there were many ways to get to the salary floor, and it's not hard to get matching salary in a star trade. I think the Jazz saw Collins as an asset at rock bottom and thought they could increase his value. Maybe that results in him being a good player for the Jazz, maybe that results in him being a better player and more trade value for later. What happened is that this team is in total disarray, and we just got a guy on a contract that's about double he would get on the open market. Sometimes these risks don't pan out, and right now it has not panned out with John Collins. Out of all the ways to use our cap space and reach the salary floor, this is like a D+ result.

But its like when my son had a D+ in weight training... like this isn't something that should be messed up. Its an "unforced error" as @infection called it.

I agree they wanted the player John Collins and likely had delusions of "we can flip him or increase his value". I think that's a mistake and said as much at the time. I just don't agree with the rationale that we got him to get to the floor and to use him as the cap placeholder in a star trade. Like would you rather have Collins at his number or DJJ on a 1+1 at $10M. The DJJ is a much better trade salary filler as it can be used in many different ways.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We've been trying. Pozingis, Kuzma, Herro, Jrue. We went for these second tier star guys (don't know if all of them even fit that category, just didn't get one. I feel like it's fine to wait until the right deal comes, but there also isn't an infinite amount of time to wait.

Zinger didn't make sense... Kuzma is in the John Collins class imo. I think they tried with Jrue and understand why they passed - age/contract, but if they think a second tier star without a drawback will be available I have news for them... They will need to call someone's bluff.

I think they end up getting in on Lavine (I mean if you like Herro then Lavine isn't world's different). I think Collins will end up being part of that. While I don't love it the rationale is better to me than the Collins deal. I think Zach could change his value to a point he is worth a pick or two as he has had higher highs in his career and is an easier player to fit in most scenarios than Collins. I think it is one of those double down moves on a bad investment that could go one way or another. Like buying the dip when you already have a big position on a stock.

I wouldn't trade for Zach but "stars" under long term contract that are well below their peak trade value will appeal to DA.

 

[KqWIN]

But its like when my son had a D+ in weight training... like this isn't something that should be messed up. Its an "unforced error" as @infection called it.

I agree they wanted the player John Collins and likely had delusions of "we can flip him or increase his value". I think that's a mistake and said as much at the time. I just don't agree with the rationale that we got him to get to the floor and to use him as the cap placeholder in a star trade. Like would you rather have Collins at his number or DJJ on a 1+1 at $10M. The DJJ is a much better trade salary filler as it can be used in many different ways.

Yup, it would have been much easier to get someone like DJJ on a very tradeable contract. The Thunder used about $6M in cap space + one day of bad PR to take on KPJ and pick up a couple seconds. Do we really forsee getting more than a couple seconds worth of value out of Collins? Methinks we're in the opposite direction. Honestly, just using the cap space to **** with LAL and toss a big offer sheet at Reeves would have been a better use.

 

[KqWIN]

Zinger didn't make sense... Kuzma is in the John Collins class imo. I think they tried with Jrue and understand why they passed - age/contract, but if they think a second tier star without a drawback will be available I have news for them... They will need to call someone's bluff.

I think they end up getting in on Lavine (I mean if you like Herro then Lavine isn't world's different). I think Collins will end up being part of that. While I don't love it the rationale is better to me than the Collins deal. I think Zach could change his value to a point he is worth a pick or two as he has had higher highs in his career and is an easier player to fit in most scenarios than Collins. I think it is one of those double down moves on a bad investment that could go one way or another. Like buying the dip when you already have a big position on a stock.

I wouldn't trade for Zach but "stars" under long term contract that are well below their peak trade value will appeal to DA.

Zinger makes sense to me. John Collins is like great value Zinger. If the were able to turn the cap space in Porzingis, I think we'd be super happy right now with the way he's playing (and had been playing for WAS tbh). We just didn't get our first or second, or maybe even third choice. JC was the contingency plan, and I just don't think it has worked out.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yup, it would have been much easier to get someone like DJJ on a very tradeable contract. The Thunder used about $6M in cap space + one day of bad PR to take on KPJ and pick up a couple seconds. Do we really forsee getting more than a couple seconds worth of value out of Collins? Methinks we're in the opposite direction. Honestly, just using the cap space to **** with LAL and toss a big offer sheet at Reeves would have been a better use.

I also think if you did like Collins you could wait Atlanta out. They should have been more desperate than us. They also have that Kings low level first rounder they might have ended up throwing in there. Think we were high on our own supply.

The other thing I don't like about the deal is when a player is paid that much its hard to move them out of a starting role... ego and trade value and the thought that you might "lose him" is real imo. I'd rather have a $10M rotation filler guy that you can yank in and out of the lineup as you please and as fit demands.

 

[Elizah Huge]

But its like when my son had a D+ in weight training... like this isn't something that should be messed up. Its an "unforced error" as @infection called it.

I agree they wanted the player John Collins and likely had delusions of "we can flip him or increase his value". I think that's a mistake and said as much at the time. I just don't agree with the rationale that we got him to get to the floor and to use him as the cap placeholder in a star trade. Like would you rather have Collins at his number or DJJ on a 1+1 at $10M. The DJJ is a much better trade salary filler as it can be used in many different ways.

Can we reserve a little judgement before we see what the end result is?