Trade ideas

[Handlogten's Heros]

Collins doesnt get touches becasuse Collins doesnt want touches. He's not the kind of guy who is going to command the ball. He gets his where he can in spots. He should be a 3rd big in a rotation off the bench.

If we upped his touches and gave him more opportunities to create, he would be worse. He doesnt make anyone better around him. I dont think he is so bad to where he makes us worse, but hes just there. Definition of average rotation player.

This

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Collins is at bottoms value because we bought him at that price point and havent given him enough touches to truely recover the value. Maybe the finger injury part is a concern of the past, but I dont think thats enough to sway teams to line up on our doorsteps.

His usage is 8th highest in the team, and 7th if we exclude Brice. All 4 guards the rookie, dumb, dumber and dumbest are ahead of him in that category. Shouldnt be, but they are. If we go look at boxes or tape its easy to say he is our 2nd most consistent player (both home and on the road) which is something we desperately need. He has scored less than 10 points once, and has 9 double doubles vs 10 by the entire rest of the team (Lauri 5, Walker 3, JC 1, KO 1).

We should expect that he is much better than what he appears in this fiasco, which is generated by guard and center play (both eyeball test and stats can prove the root cause without much doubt).

If he can’t get touches in this rat team then I don’t know who’s going to give him enough touches. His three point shooting was absolutely 100% his best chance to change his value and that part has been good. Not having PnR ball handlers or a spaced floor can explain some of his other regression pretty easily.

Bear down @Saint Cy of JFC there is an analogy coming later.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Collins hasnt done anything outside of catch some impressive lobs where I thought "wow what a great play only a quality NBA player could make"

The one thing I guess I have to give Collins credit for is that the 3 big starting lineup is dominant as rebounders, and Collins is part of that. He's a quality rebounder.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Collins is just one of those players you have to watch to understand him. I never got wtf was going on in Atlanta, but I feel like I do now.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Though that being said, the Hawks still suck without Collins. Still one of the weirdest mediocre teams w/ how much talent they have.

 

[KqWIN]

Eh, Collins has different problems than he did in ATL. He lost his fastball. He’s no longer one of the best finishers in the league around the basket. He also made some improvements to his defense over had the years. But he’s been a big part of the disaster that is our defense. His analytics are the worst in his career. Worst scoring efficiency of his career. I’m sure we can come with a bunch of excuses, but those don’t mean **** as far as trade value.

Any trade you think of for John Collins, just substitute for KO+THT. Collins will not be traded, there won’t be a team that wants him.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Eh, Collins has different problems than he did in ATL. He lost his fastball. He’s no longer one of the best finishers in the league around the basket. He also made some improvements to his defense over the years. He’s been a big part of the disaster that is our defense. His analytics are the worst in his career. Worst scoring efficiency of his career. I’m sure we can come with a bunch of excuses, but those don’t mean **** as far as trade value.

Any trade you think of for John Collins, just substitute for KO+THT. Collins will not be traded, there won’t be a team that wants him.

Preach

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Eh, Collins has different problems than he did in ATL. He lost his fastball. He’s no longer one of the best finishers in the league around the basket. He also made some improvements to his defense over the years. He’s been a big part of the disaster that is our defense. His analytics are the worst in his career. Worst scoring efficiency of his career. I’m sure we can come with a bunch of excuses, but those don’t mean **** as far as trade value.

Any trade you think of for John Collins, just substitute for KO+THT. Collins will not be traded, there won’t be a team that wants him.

Did he lose his fastball, or did he lose playing with one of the best offensive PG's in the NBA on a well spaced court?

 

[KqWIN]

Did he lose his fastball, or did he lose playing with one of the best offensive PG's in the NBA on a well spaced court?

Either way, does nothing for his trade value. The problem with the Jazz being in this flipping assets mode is that we are not a team that showcases talent and makes players look better than they are. We are the team that makes everyone look worse.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Did he lose his fastball, or did he lose playing with one of the best offensive PG's in the NBA on a well spaced court?

Huh?

Collins looked meh/bad for a long time in Atlanta while he WAS playing with Trae. He spent years on the trading block for a reason.

 

[infection]

The idea of keeping Collins to squeeze out a modicum of positive value in return relative to what we gave up is the textbook definition of sunk-cost, even if that sunk cost was just opportunity. Well, that and $80M.

 

[HermanG]

Collins doesnt get touches becasuse Collins doesnt want touches. He's not the kind of guy who is going to command the ball. He gets his where he can in spots. He should be a 3rd big in a rotation off the bench.

If we upped his touches and gave him more opportunities to create, he would be worse. He doesnt make anyone better around him. I dont think he is so bad to where he makes us worse, but hes just there. Definition of average rotation player.

I think you have a lot of good points, except I do think he can play as a starter and be effective. Watch him on offense without the ball. He moves a lot more than you'd think, trying to make himself available.

His shot chart also shows it. He has 78 3 pointers.. 18 from left corner, 27 from right corner and 36 above the break.

He also has 73% assisted rate, so 27% of his points are unassisted.

And this is all without a proper PnR connection and with very low amount of designed plays.

He has more in him. His biggest downfall is him being a meh defender, but he compensates by being an elite rebounder (especially considering how much he lives on the perimeter).