Trade Joe Ingles and Dante Exum for.....

[checkbookdoc]

If both Joe and Dante leave, right now, you could possibly say that come playoff time, and there are no further transactions, we could only truly be 6 deep. That's a lot of pressure.

We would be at least 8 deep of NBA rotation players.
Starters: Conley, Mitchell, Bog, AG, Rudy
Bench: O'Neale, Davis, Green

We will also be in a good position to pick up a player or two that gets bought out and is looking for a role on a playoff team.
There is also a chance that one of Mudiay, Bradley, Oni, or Niang can give you a reasonable 7 minutes a night in the playoffs.

 

[Jazzmix]

We have a team with a bunch of new guys learning Q’s system. They seem to have the beginnings of team chemistry. Joe is one of the reasons we continue to have chemistry, he is probably 50% of what keeps everyone together and laughing and he’s probably doing it despite coming off the bench this year. Who else does that?
Do we really want to get rid of the guy that probably gets Q and his system better than anyone else on this team even if the next guy appears to be more athletic? We have 4? returning players, a ton of noobs, and you want to dump one of the main guys that has to teach these new players how to do this already?
I don’t like it.
I’m kind of of the opinion that we keep Joe here his whole career then put up a headband statue and retire his number, so I might be a little biased.

I agree. To me trading Joe is like selling a car as let's say old Toyota Corolla e9 or Mercedes W124 which you took good care. You just know that even it has already a considerable mileage it will still ride well and without problems for a long time and cheaper then a new one. You could sell it for couple hundreds of bucks but you would never get something equal in return.

 

[Dali]

We would be at least 8 deep of NBA rotation players.
Starters: Conley, Mitchell, Bog, AG, Rudy
Bench: O'Neale, Davis, Green

We will also be in a good position to pick up a player or two that gets bought out and is looking for a role on a playoff team.
There is also a chance that one of Mudiay, Bradley, Oni, or Niang can give you a reasonable 7 minutes a night in the playoffs.

That's of course assuming Green and Davis become excellent contributors to a deep playoff team.

The reality though is that Jeff Green has probably had more teams that he has played for than actual seasons played in, in the last 5 years, and that's a concern. Ed Davis is inredibly, incredibly limited, and neither of the two have earned our trust to be considered reliable role players.

Royce and Joe are tested in the playoffs and they have earned the trust. By the way, Green has had 7 teams he's played for, in the last 5 and a bit years.

 

[Dali]

Those other guys are already gone i thought even without the trade


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I'm sorry Fish, for some reason I thought you meant the overall changes of our team, up and until the suggested trade, my bad.

Still it changes the dynamics of our first and second units. We would no longer be able to start Green, and then bring the security of Joe from the bench. AG would start, Green on the bench, and now we only have one proven player in the second unit, who I would trust in the playoffs. We know who that is.

Having said ALL of the stuff that I have in this thread, has been focused on this season, and this season only. If somebody was to ask me would I pull the trigger on this trade if it came available, looking past this season, and for the long term? Well then, abso-****ing-lutely.

 

[infection]

I’d have a lot of questions and reservations about Gordon. Sure, he’s a defensive upgrade vs. our alternatives, but by how much? And what are the downsides?

He’s a better rebounder than Joe for sure. But he’s an adequate-ish rebounder for position, and not necessarily great. And comparing them is harder because he’d only be replacing some of Joe’s minutes and then other people like Green and Royce.

This is a guy looking to be a #2 option. Does that make sense for us? The huge knock on Donovan is how inefficient he is. Gordon has a worse TS% than Donovan, which is even worse comparatively because he’s a 4 and not a 2. His TS% is lower than Crowder’s both for career as well as last year. When you have much higher efficiency players like Bojan, Conley, and Gobert, do you really want to have the second leading scorer’s offensive be occupied by that kind of efficiency? Could you imagine Jae Crowder being our second highest scorer? Because that’s what it is. He had a career year last year from deep at 34.9%. He’s career 32.1%. Are people going to respect him in a way that allows our offense and spacing to work? If they leave him open, do we want him being a high volume 3PT shooter?

For those more attuned to his defensive prowess, how good is it? How much of an impact would it make in a game above Ingles’? How big is the drop off in other areas?

Tl;dr I just don’t see the positives he brings outweighing a lot of realistic problems that would likely only get recognized in hindsight.

 

[fishonjazz]

I’d have a lot of questions and reservations about Gordon. Sure, he’s a defensive upgrade vs. our alternatives, but by how much? And what are the downsides?

He’s a better rebounder than Joe for sure. But he’s an adequate-ish rebounder for position, and not necessarily great. And comparing them is harder because he’d only be replacing some of Joe’s minutes and then other people like Green and Royce.

This is a guy looking to be a #2 option. Does that make sense for us? The huge knock on Donovan is how inefficient he is. Gordon has a worse TS% than Donovan, which is even worse comparatively because he’s a 4 and not a 2. His TS% is lower than Crowder’s both for career as well as last year. When you have much higher efficiency players like Bojan, Conley, and Gobert, do you really want to have the second leading scorer’s offensive be occupied by that kind of efficiency? Could you imagine Jae Crowder being our second highest scorer? Because that’s what it is. He had a career year last year from deep at 34.9%. He’s career 32.1%. Are people going to respect him in a way that allows our offense and spacing to work? If they leave him open, do we want him being a high volume 3PT shooter?

For those more attuned to his defensive prowess, how good is it? How much of an impact would it make in a game above Ingles’? How big is the drop off in other areas?

Tl;dr I just don’t see the positives he brings outweighing a lot of realistic problems that would likely only get recognized in hindsight.

Good post.
Especially about the TS%

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[Handlogten's Heros]

AG is a bit overrated... he’s good but anyone thinking he’s way better than Joe is factoring in a step in his development.

This trade idea is dumb AF. Orlando would want way more and we would never give it to them.

I’d take AG over Green/Royce but it isn’t as big of an improvement as we think. AG is good... he’s theoretically great... but what if he’s like a slightly better version of prime Jeff Green... he’s not worth the premium you’d pay in a trade.

Also there is a simple rule when evaluating who wins a trade. Did you acquire Joe Ingles? Yes, then you win the trade. No, then you should have traded for Joe Ingles.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

We finally have the type of offense that destroys in this league, and you ****ers want to trade it away because you're worried about defense.

 

[Hotdog]

Blasphemy.

Cant believe anyone would suggest trading Joe. He is part of the heart and soul of this team.

 

[enchilada_style]

Good hell... haven’t even hit the season and this bull **** starts.

Gordon is cool and all but Green/Royce/Bojan are going to give us like 80-90% of what he is imo. He’s not some lock down defender. They wouldn’t do that trade and I think Joe might be more in line with our current year goals. Please go to wherever @LoPo went and pitch this deal to him.

Its good practice


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[checkbookdoc]

Royce and Joe are tested in the playoffs and they have earned the trust. By the way, Green has had 7 teams he's played for, in the last 5 and a bit years.

It could easily be argued that Green and Davis have proven their worth in the playoffs much more than O'Neale has. They are not stars, but good enough for a bench role in the playoffs.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I'm not sure that Aaron Gordon is the guy. It feels to me like the Jazz are a half player away from begin true contenders. Upgrading Jeff Green with a guy like Domantas Sabonis (rebounds and toughness) or Otto Porter (two-way wing) might put us there. Brantley can play the backup 4, imo. I think you have to give Green a chance to play though. He's been doing pretty well.

Aaron Gordon might have a bit more sizzle than substance to his game.