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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Elizah Huge said:
When I read this at first I could have sworn it said your first thumbs up… because I would have bet a lot of money he’s downvoted you before… who hasn’t?
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I honestly only get downgraded by one or two posters. Mostly up. And I’m pretty sure he’s never given me a thumbs down, like ever before today.
 
NUMBERICA said:
If they hadn’t bungled all of the stuff on the margins and preserved any kind of assets and flexibility thereof, there’s any kind of argument for re-tooling. As it stands, the Jazz have no ways to improve and will only get worse. I honestly don’t see how one could come to a different conclusion, at which point the topic of disagreement is whether being a bottom-4 playoff team for two years, then a play-in team for two years, is worth it.
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Obviously you're being hyperbolic by saying "there are no ways to improve", but there are a lot of ways to improve a team. The draft isn't the only way to improve. I would feel differently about Don+Gobert if 1) I believe the roster that was just put together was optimal 2) the flawed roster played to their potential and 3) if tanking wasn't a permanently available option. The results are what they are, but by no means do I think it was representative of the potential we had. It's definitely not a "we did everything we could" type of situation.

Change the coach, make better moves on the margin, make a good trade, don't use the MLE on a guy who you have to pay to get rid of a year later. There are a lot of things you can do to get better. Basically, all the the Jazz did horribly were still able to be done better and improved the team. Tanking is permanently available option whereas having Don+Rudy at the same time is a special opportunity. I know, it all seems unlikely. But if/when we tank there's a long way to get back where we were, and there's no guarantee that when we get out of the other side it's going to be better. For as difficult as it is to retool, it is also difficult to find a Don and Rudy at the same time.

Perhaps personal issues made it impossible to continue anyways, but that makes the FO blundering even more devastating. I think the arrogance to sit on their *** for the past two years and not acknowledge any kind of weakness/failure is the biggest organizational failure I can remember as a Jazz fan. It will never sit right with me, and I cannot believe how many justified the inaction.
 
KqWIN said:
Obviously you're being hyperbolic by saying "there are no ways to improve", but there are a lot of ways to improve a team. The draft isn't the only way to improve. I would feel differently about Don+Gobert if 1) I believe the roster that was just put together was optimal 2) the flawed roster played to their potential and 3) if tanking wasn't a permanently available option. The results are what they are, but by no means do I think it was representative of the potential we had. It's definitely not a "we did everything we could" type of situation.

Change the coach, make better moves on the margin, make a good trade, don't use the MLE on a guy who you have to pay to get rid of a year later. There are a lot of things you can do to get better. Basically, all the the Jazz did horribly were still able to be done better and improved the team. Tanking is permanently available option whereas having Don+Rudy at the same time is a special opportunity. I know, it all seems unlikely. But if/when we tank there's a long way to get back where we were, and there's no guarantee that when we get out of the other side it's going to be better. For as difficult as it is to retool, it is also difficult to find a Don and Rudy at the same time.

Perhaps personal issues made it impossible to continue anyways, but that makes the FO blundering even more devastating. I think the arrogance to sit on their *** for the past two years and not acknowledge any kind of weakness/failure is the biggest organizational failure I can remember as a Jazz fan. It will never sit right with me, and I cannot believe how many justified the inaction.
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I mean yeah, but the real trick is to get a great player low in the draft. Rudy and Donovan were absolute steals but there were reasons that they didn't go top 5. Rudy's offensive limitations and Donovan's measurables. Ideally you can get a top 3 stud an get a later round steal to supplement them.

Also you can't draft Bagely when you get that shot.
 
framer said:
I mean yeah, but the real trick is to get a great player low in the draft. Rudy and Donovan were absolute steals but there were reasons that they didn't go top 5. Rudy's offensive limitations and Donovan's measurables. Ideally you can get a top 3 stud an get a later round steal to supplement them.

Also you can't draft Bagely when you get that shot.
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Looking at 2013 Gobert draft we were extremely lucky to walk away with anyone of worth. That draft sucked outside of Giannis and Gobert. Thats what sucks about the draft you can land those high picks, but that doesnt guarantee anything. Nobody drafting top 3 got a decent player and no other team would have done better that year with a top 3 pick. Every year is a crap shoot, you have players that are universally thought of us worth the pick and bust. Have the Jazz board would have traded anything to draft Jabari Parker. Right now in the NBA there are two #1 picks from not too long ago that are getting very little interest.

I wonder who we would have taken had we had the #1 pick the year of Mitchell. Tatum ended up being solid but he was not considered a #1 pick almost everyone had Fultz ahead of him. I wonder whats the highest we would have taken him. We got pretty lucky to get him, which is what it takes. Outside of a few #1 picks like Lebron, Anthony Davis, Tim Duncan, Shaq type #1 players its so far from any kind of guarantee. Even some years like that you get a Greg Oden or maybe even Zion if he doesnt get healthy. It was so much easier when players stayed 4 years in college.
 
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