Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[infection]

Our failures came because we never finished building a roster which is necessary to compete in the modern day playoffs. That's on DL despite the fact that he did make some very good moves starting the building process.

Quin is a very good coach who never had adjustments ready for modern day playoff basketball. Sure we could just blame it all on DL, but Quin never using crucial small ball tactics is on him.

But you never addressed the joy part of the game. Superstars in many sports can underachieve when there is no joy.

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In essence, you’re saying that DL and Quin’s failings are unforgivable, while Donovan’s are perfectly understandable.

 

[LoPo]

In essence, you’re saying that DL and Quin’s failings are unforgivable, while Donovan’s are perfectly understandable.

No, I'm saying that the environment sucked, everybody is at least a little to blame, and player performances can be attributed to the lack of joy.

I've already piled on Don for his occasional lack of effort. Rudy for occasionally being a diva. Conley for being a disappointment when it mattered most. etc etc.

Last year wasn't fun for a lot of guys. That doesn't mean that Don is a bad defender forever. Or Conley is completely washed. Or Rudy won't ever get better at certain offensive skills. etc.

Oh, and coaches and front office are always the first ones to be blamed. That's sports.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No, I'm saying that the environment sucked, everybody is at least a little to blame, and player performances can be attributed to the lack of joy.

I've already piled on Don for his occasional lack of effort. Rudy for occasionally being a diva. Conley for being a disappointment when it mattered most. etc etc.

Last year wasn't fun for a lot of guys. That doesn't mean that Don is a bad defender forever. Or Conley is completely washed. Or Rudy won't ever get better at certain offensive skills. etc.

Oh, and coaches and front office are always the first ones to be blamed. That's sports.

lmao wut?

 

[LoPo]

lmao wut?

I would assume you are smart enough to understand the statement, but you know what people say about assuming.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I would assume you are smart enough to understand the statement, but you know what people say about assuming.

You just made something up.

 

[LoPo]

You just made something up.

Oh really? Ask Frank Vogel.

Players take flack, but they don't take the ultimate blame. Coaches first then front office.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So Vando signed with Klutch… guess he will be in the big Lakers trade that is surely coming.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Oh really? Ask Frank Vogel.

Players take flack, but they don't take the ultimate blame. Coaches first then front office.

Coaches get fired first, but they dont get blamed first. It's just a product of the salary and CBA rules. We are perfectly able to assign blame using our eyes.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Oh, and coaches and front office are always the first ones to be blamed. That's sports.

For the typical fan, that is. People who are fans of players over teams always blame coaches and ownership, and do so without having access to the whole story. It's strange that you would align yourself with the low-IQ mob that way.

Coaches and team officials don't really air their grievances online like players do. Mitchell had been an exception on that front to players in his tier, but the amazing thing is that he hasn't had to be explicit about his wanting out. It has been apparent in his play.

Personal responsibility to fulfill a contract professionally goes far beyond media acumen. Mitchell's half-assed message (through his play and attitude) to the organization and to the fans underscores an egregious lack of leadership. I'm ecstatic that there are teams out there who do not care about such qualities.

Ainge is absolutely correct to lead the organization to trade in Mitchell's prime value for future assets.

It is beyond me that anyone with a brain would place equal blame on the coaches or GM for Donovan's play over the last year. His personal responsibility is paramount.

If it's true that Don has wanted out for years, then it undermines any argument against Snyder. Quibble about coaching decisions and details if you must, that's all fair. But it is not on equal footing to being forced to work with someone who already has their foot out the door. At all.

 

[outerspacefan]

Quin already acknowledged his responsibility walking away with his "another voice is needed".
But I'm as convinced as a fan can be that coach was the less to blame.
Somewhere along the roller coaster these last seasons have been the players started not standing for each other.
Not rare at all, specially within the franchise frame of big changes taking place...
And my nose still smells Wade ways were not ideal...

 

[LoPo]

For the typical fan, that is. People who are fans of players over teams always blame coaches and ownership, and do so without having access to the whole story. It's strange that you would align yourself with the low-IQ mob that way.

Coaches and team officials don't really air their grievances online like players do. Mitchell had been an exception on that front to players in his tier, but the amazing thing is that he hasn't had to be explicit about his wanting out. It has been apparent in his play.

Personal responsibility to fulfill a contract professionally goes far beyond media acumen. Mitchell's half-assed message (through his play and attitude) to the organization and to the fans underscores an egregious lack of leadership. I'm ecstatic that there are teams out there who do not care about such qualities.

Ainge is absolutely correct to lead the organization to trade in Mitchell's prime value for future assets.

It is beyond me that anyone with a brain would place equal blame on the coaches or GM for Donovan's play over the last year. His personal responsibility is paramount.

If it's true that dawn has wanted out for years, then it undermines any argument against Snyder. Quibble about coaching decisions and details if you must, that's all fair. But it is not on equal footing to being forced to work with someone who already has their foot out the door. At all.

Overblown - "foot out the door" garbage. Right now is the perfect opportunity to force his foot out he door, and he hasn't. But here comes the "doesn't want to blame his image" argument. Playing for a team trying to lose like Ainge is aiming at would hurt his image.

Overblown - his lack of effort. It's getting blown way out of proportion as just another means to blame him. He tried a hell of a lot more than he's being given credit for. Even on defense. Don busted his *** a lot for this franchise, and y'all are disrespecting that.

Players get blamed just like everybody gets blamed to a certain degree, but front offices build the teams and coaches coach them. That's why they are held more accountable. DL failed Don and Rudy so much more than Don and Rudy ever failed the Utah Jazz. That's why DL is gone. Quin is gone because he couldn't lead. Much like Mark Jackson in GS, Quin did good things but he wasn't the answer to take the team over that next hump. Quin realized he couldn't go further so he stepped away. He took some of the blame. As he should have.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

but front offices build the teams and coaches coach them. That's why they are held more accountable.

You're stating this as if it is some sort of critical imperative. It ignores the fact that coaches and front office staff cannot go out on the court and lead a team.

Teams can be built as well as they can, and still fail. Conversely, If your player has enough quality of talent and character, teams can so far better than the circumstances that they are placed in when they are led by amazing team leaders. I would maintain that (even if the mob disagrees) players are ultimately responsible for how they execute the plan. You want to cite circumstances and shove the blame off in that direction, which makes you painfully typical.

Quitters quit everywhere. Time will reveal what Mitchell is and is not.