Transgender and sports

[One Brow]

I can see that you will never convince me that humans born as males and humans born as females should compete together against each other and I will never convince you they shouldn't. We are done here.

By the way, I thought you were done. If you are sure there is no way you will be convinced, why are you continuing the conversation?

 

[LogGrad98]

Google fastest mile by a man and fastest mile by a woman. I bet the man time is faster. Do 20 miles. 50. Whatever you want. I dont know if there is a way to prove or track male vs female in equestrian or ping pong but if you can show me im all ears. Diving makes sense being that it seems like a smaller splash would make for a better score and women are smaller. Equestrian too i guess. Less weight on the horses back (the horse seems more important than the "athlete" in this sport but idk)

I do know that there is actual factual undeniable data available on many olympic events like shotput, discuss, javelin, any kind of racing, long jump, triple jump etc etc. Men are better in all those things. Why do you think that is?

Edit: I googled fastest marathon time for men and for women. Spoiler alert, the men were dominant.

One result of a quick google. Looks like generally women's world records are about 85 to 90% that of men's world records for same sports. Didn't dig deep enough to find the sports that are tilted the other way. Just grabbed the first link that looked interesting.

We Thought Female Athletes Were Catching Up to Men, but They're Not

Across dozens of sports, women's world speed records consistently fall 10 percent short of men's records.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[LogGrad98]

This is so obviously a skewed web site, pushing the anti-trans in sports agenda, but the charts are interesting, as is the concept, in the context of where this conversation has been going.

If boys are faster than elite female athletes, should males compete in female athletics?

See how the best high school boys stack up against the best female Olympians and World Record holders in Track & Field and Swimming.

boysvswomen.com

 

[Al-O-Meter]

This is so obviously a skewed web site, pushing the anti-trans in sports agenda, but the charts are interesting, as is the concept, in the context of where this conversation has been going.

If boys are faster than elite female athletes, should males compete in female athletics?

See how the best high school boys stack up against the best female Olympians and World Record holders in Track & Field and Swimming.

boysvswomen.com

I found the 400 and 800 LC (Long Course) swimming marks really telling. Both have one lone woman stripe toward the top. Both of those stripes are Katie Ledecky, the greatest female swimmer in history. Even the greatest female swimmer in history would not have even made the podium if swimming against High School boys in the 400, and couldn't have done better than 3rd in the longer 800 race. No other biologically female good enough to qualify for the Olympics got even close to good High School male swimmers.

 

[Archie Moses]

You have obviously never watched a single minute of women's basketball, have you?

Apparently you haven't.

 

[One Brow]

It's annoying, frustrating, and telling that people keep wanting to discuss cis men in thread supposedly about trans women.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

It's annoying, frustrating, and telling that people keep wanting to discuss cis men in thread supposedly about trans women.

People want to discuss the performance advantages of being biologically male versus female. Your idea that sports should be divided up by what kind of clothes people want to wear is bonkers.

 

[Scat]

Maybe we should just let PED's be used unfettered as well?

 

[One Brow]

People want to discuss the performance advantages of being biologically male versus female.

Technically, once you have started hormone therapy, you have changed your biology and are no longer biologically male.

However, if you really want to discuss the performance advantages, shouldn't there be significant performance advantages to discuss? So, there has been a grand total of one trans woman winning an Olympic medal, and she wasn't even the best player on that soccer team. There's been 1 WNBA player that I know of, and she hasn't been a star. Instead, the bigots focus on Connecticut track meets and Ivy League swimming, not exactly hot-spots of athletic talent. Your supposed performance advantages for trans women are an illusion, conjured out of your own hate and fear.

Your idea that sports should be divided up by what kind of clothes people want to wear is bonkers.

Your idea that this is my idea or represents my idea is an evil, ugly, lie, based on the bigoted notion that trans women are not really women.

 

[One Brow]

Fish, I agree with you. With most sports, biological males, on average, have strength and size advantages over their biological female counterparts.

Predictably, you went on an evidence-free rant that focused on cis men.

Taking estrogen, removing your testes or blocking estrogen won't take away a lot of advantages a biological male will develop over their lifetime. Taking a position that this is not the case is as absurd as the stance most anti-vaxxers take, you are simply trying to make your stance fit a false narrative.

Since no one has taken that position, an honest person would drop it. I expect you to repeat it frequently.

We aren't seeing trans men dominating male sports,

Did you know the first trans Olympian was a trans man?

... we see a good # of trans women are leading the pack in their region, schools or overall sport, and there is a reason for that.

There is. They are leading in areas that don't produce/recruit large numbers of top-level women athletes, so they have a better chance to dominate there.

We are at the very beginning of this,

Slippery slope arguments are fallacies.

I have no problem competing on a fair playing field. I also think someone that takes testosterone or HDH but stops in time to pass testing should still be banned, even if their intent was not to get an unfair advantage. Biological males have a similar advantage.

Why don't you trust the governing body of a sport to decide what they consider to be a fair playing field for their sport?

I support the trans community, I just think their is an unfair advantage for trans women to participate in most cis women sports.

No doubt you'll start using data, as opposed to anecdotes, to prove this. I mean, you're not just some bigot, right? You really support trans people, so you'd only limit them based on some sort of evidence, right?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Technically, once you have started hormone therapy, you have changed your biology and are no longer biologically male.

You have said some dumb things but this one is a prize winner. Being biologically male is about gamete production. It doesn't matter is you are a human or a lizard or a fish or a plant. You don't stop being biologically male by suppressing a hormone during adulthood, or wearing dresses, or changing the pronouns in your twitter bio. That isn't how biology works.

Instead, the bigots focus on...

Wokesters focus on name-calling to distract from how ridiculous their argument is.

Your idea that this is my idea or represents my idea is an evil, ugly, lie, based on the bigoted notion that trans women are not really women.

Trans women are not really biological women. Name-call all you want but EVERYONE knows this truth. Trans women are biological males who are uncomfortable that they are biological men.

 

[One Brow]

You have said some dumb things but this one is a prize winner. Being biologically male is about gamete production.

You have committed a greater irony unintentionally than I could have done deliberately. No pre-pubescent children are biologically male by this definition. Castrated men are not biologically male by this definition. Men over 70 are not biologically male by this definition. Trans women who have had bottom surgery are not biologically male by this definition.

That isn't how biology works.

Your profound ignorance of biology is expected.

Wokesters focus on name-calling to distract from how ridiculous their argument is.

Just speaking the truth about you. I'm sure it's painful.

Trans women are not really biological women. Name-call all you want but EVERYONE knows this truth. Trans women are biological males who are uncomfortable that they are biological men.

Bigots will be bigots. They will complain about being called bigots, but that won't stop them from being bigots. They seek the respectability of being considered rational without doing the hard work of providing rational opinions.