Transgender and sports


Eminence

Well-Known Member
Well past that. Again, we're talking a fraction of a percent of the total population. Letting trans women compete with cis women means you'll see the occasional trans woman competing, and occasionally dominating the sport.

Just to put this into perspective a bit, there are about half a million student athletes each year, and close to that number of trans people across all age groups in the entire US. Trans women dominating sports at any level just isn't something anyone should be worried about.

Estimates I've seen put the trans percentage around 1% in younger generations.

What I'm digging for here is at what % people think we would see a negative effect on athletic participation from AFAB individuals (or you could of course argue for why we wouldn't see such a decrease no matter the %, but that doesn't sound realistic - giving kids role models they can relate to is important). Because that is the negative consequence that gives me serious pause, not the personal lives of a handful of athletes that either would or wouldn't be competing at those top levels.
 


Zombie

Well-Known Member
Estimates I've seen put the trans percentage around 1% in younger generations.

What I'm digging for here is at what % people think we would see a negative effect on athletic participation from AFAB individuals (or you could of course argue for why we wouldn't see such a decrease no matter the %, but that doesn't sound realistic - giving kids role models they can relate to is important). Because that is the negative consequence that gives me serious pause, not the personal lives of a handful of athletes that either would or wouldn't be competing at those top levels.
Huh, I guess I'm a little confused about your point here. I'm not sure future generations of young girls are going to feel like they can't look up to trans female sports stars, nor that they won't have appreciably fewer cis women sports stars to look up to.

Unless you believe trans women could somehow make up a majority of women in sports in the future, which is ludicrous imo.
 

Eminence

Well-Known Member
Huh, I guess I'm a little confused about your point here. I'm not sure future generations of young girls are going to feel like they can't look up to trans female sports stars, nor that they won't have appreciably fewer cis women sports stars to look up to.

Unless you believe trans women could somehow make up a majority of women in sports in the future, which is ludicrous imo.

A majority would indeed be pretty ludicrous.

But yes, I find it likely cis girls will have a harder time connecting with trans women than cis women.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
What I'm digging for here is at what % people think we would see a negative effect on athletic participation from AFAB individuals .
So, this is the a fourth grader who refuses to practice sprinting because she might face a transgender girl in high school? A high school senior whose been practicing all her life, but gives up rather than compete against one or two people?

My daughter was a thrower. Every year, girls from the same 3-4 schools would win the competitions, because they had better athletic programs. She didn't give up throwing in high school. As a college sophomore, she has stopped because she is pre-vet, and calculus/organic chemistry takes priority over sports.
 

Eminence

Well-Known Member
So, this is the a fourth grader who refuses to practice sprinting because she might face a transgender girl in high school? A high school senior whose been practicing all her life, but gives up rather than compete against one or two people?

My daughter was a thrower. Every year, girls from the same 3-4 schools would win the competitions, because they had better athletic programs. She didn't give up throwing in high school. As a college sophomore, she has stopped because she is pre-vet, and calculus/organic chemistry takes priority over sports.

Closer to the 1st than the 2nd, but elementary kids don't think about high school competition, they dream about being president or MVP or winning a Grammy or whatever.
 

Eminence

Well-Known Member
One thing I would appreciate clarification from those in favor of trans individuals competing - do you mean all trans individuals or trans individuals who've transitioned in a certain way (mainly hormonally)?

I would still like this answered. Some of my thoughts:

If the first - well I applaud your logical consistency, but I disagree, I think there's a clear athletic advantage and doing so would notably compromise the point of womens athletics.

If the second - well I'm struggling to see how setting your bar of what qualifies a person for a womens league other than their own opinion of their gender isn't just as arbitrary and cruel as my setting it at AFAB individuals. You've essentially decided for yourself which trans people are 'really' the gender they identify with and so are allowed to compete. I do recognize my bar is arbitrary and hurtful to trans individuals - don't doubt I've debated this back and forth with myself and in discussions with my spouse.
 

Archie Moses

Well-Known Member
I would still like this answered. Some of my thoughts:

If the first - well I applaud your logical consistency, but I disagree, I think there's a clear athletic advantage and doing so would notably compromise the point of womens athletics.

If the second - well I'm struggling to see how setting your bar of what qualifies a person for a womens league other than their own opinion of their gender isn't just as arbitrary and cruel as my setting it at AFAB individuals. You've essentially decided for yourself which trans people are 'really' the gender they identify with and so are allowed to compete. I do recognize my bar is arbitrary and hurtful to trans individuals - don't doubt I've debated this back and forth with myself and in discussions with my spouse.
There was a thread that covered this and your question a few years ago I believe @Jason locked because (tbh, I can't remember why.)

I shared a lot of thoughts and learned a lot from @Gameface .

Interested in why that thread was locked.
 

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