Trey-Alec-Gordo-Favors-Enes -9 Last Night in 12 Minutes

[Hitman]

I don't buy this explanation of complimentary players to play with the young ones so they can develop. Players develop by playing not by watching. In many cases this season, Marvin and RJ have taken meaningful minutes from the young guys or in some cases resulted in them getting DNPs -- guys like Gobert, who in some instances was outplaying both Favors and Kanter.

Give an actual example of where MW or RJ have taken meaningful minutes from another player. Hayward, Burke and Favors are already playing over 30 minutes a game, Burks plays nearly 28. Kanter is the only one playing less than RJ or MW, but his conditioning wasn't there to start the season and he wasn't able to play many minutes (and he looked terrible for the most part when he did play). Evans is getting 19 mins and that's about right for him since he's always going to be a bench player anyway. Given his improved performance there is some

As for Gobert, he's still a major project. He can do some good things defensively with his help defence, but his man defence is poor and he fouls too much. He still relies on his height for rebounding rather than working for position and while he still gets a lot of rebounds, he also gives up a lot of offensive rebounds too. Lastly, he's a major liability on the offensive end, where he's a turnover waiting to happen and can't shoot from more than a yard from the ring. He isn't ready for anything except spot minutes. The best place for him to develop right now is the practice court, the D-League, the weight room and the buffet.

What's the rush, you say? Well, what's the purpose in leaving this guy on the pine? Look at all the DNPs Burks has gotten -- did that help his development. It hurt his confidence in my opinion, as what happened at the beginning of last year. Corbin has always had poor judgment in giving out minutes. Look at what he did with DMC, who promptly landed a starting position with play-off bound Atlanta. A lot of us were crying out for more minutes for DMC, and even after he earned them, Brain Dead put him back on the bench. All this intellectual justification for the stupidity of Corbin is just absurd. And to think because of him we lost Horny!

I don't dispute that Corbin has put this franchise a year or more behind when it comes to the development of the young players. I agree that Burks should have gotten more minutes last season, and Foye less, even though his game last year was still raw, and Corbin's treatment of DMC was bewildering. But Gobert is a major work in progress and you can't compare the two situations.

 

[Getting Traded]

I know Gobert is raw but so what ... give him some time. I'm not asking major minutes, but he should get 10-15 every game in my opinion. It will help his development, help the tank, and be in the best future interests of the Jazz.

 

[fishonjazz]

Give an actual example of where MW or RJ have taken meaningful minutes from another player.

How about tonight?

Kanter playing great
Benched for marvin.

That was easy

 

[Hitman]

Also, with regard to the thread topic, I just trawled through 82games.com to work out what would be a reasonable number of minutes to play the Core 5 together, for those who want that to happen and think it will work. And I was surprised by how few minutes many teams play their Top-5 together.

Portland (Lillard-Matthews-Batum-Aldridge-Lopez) and Minnesota (Rubio-Martin-Brewer-Love-Pekovic) play their Top-5 about 20 minutes/game. Indiana (G.Hill-Stephenson-George-West-Hibbert) play theirs about 17 mins per game. Then there is a further drop off to GSW (Curry-Thompson-Iguodala-Lee-Bogut) at 13 mins/game. Detroit (Jennings-Caldwell-Pope-Smith-Monroe-Drummond) and Philly (Carter-Williams-Anderson-Turner-Young-Hawes) are the only other teams whose Top-5 are on the court together for 10 mins a game or more, and over half the league have put their Top-5 combo on court for an average of 6 minutes or less.

Now the above calculation is purely on total minutes divided by games, and doesn't take into account the impact of injuries, but even doubling the figure for the most-used combo barely reaches double figures for a dozen teams. For example San Antonio's most-used five are Parker-Green-Leonard-Duncan-Splitter, for a total of 137 minutes!

Still, looking at the top combos listed above, and excluding all the injury-impacted and basket-case teams, I think it reasonable to expect your top combo to average 10-12 minutes a game together, although the further you go over that figure, the more unrealistic your expectation becomes. So last night is the blueprint for a typical game for those who want to maximise the Core 5's time together, and I don't think it was a bad mix.

 

[Hitman]

How about tonight?

Kanter playing great
Benched for marvin.

That was easy

Marvin also playing well, and keeping the floor nicely spaced. And Kanter back in, and will probably play all the last quarter.

Actually, I was thinking more in terms of this being a good game to give Gobert some time - big fourth quarter lead, Sacramento missing all their good players, pretty much no way to blow the lead even if they tried, not even any real value in putting the Core 5 against these scrubs, should give him the whole 12 minutes, but nope, he's still on the bench. I'm with E-M on this - put Gobert in.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Great posts. Personally, I still can't stand the amount if minutes that Marvin and Jefferson are getting. Even though it's not the norm, I'd play the Core5 together at least 10-12 minutes per game.

Bring Marvin off the bench as a stretch 4 and move Jefferson out of the lineup altogether. Get Gobert and Clark a little bit of playing time to help establish their value and roles for next year.

 

[fishonjazz]

Marvin also playing well, and keeping the floor nicely spaced. And Kanter back in, and will probably play all the last quarter.

Actually, I was thinking more in terms of this being a good game to give Gobert some time - big fourth quarter lead, Sacramento missing all their good players, pretty much no way to blow the lead even if they tried, not even any real value in putting the Core 5 against these scrubs, should give him the whole 12 minutes, but nope, he's still on the bench. I'm with E-M on this - put Gobert in.

Its ok bro.... you can just admit that marv took minutes from kanter tonight in that first half.
You asked for an example and i gave you one and it only took the first half of the first game since you asked for the example

 

[Hitman]

Marvin also playing well, and keeping the floor nicely spaced. And Kanter back in, and will probably play all the last quarter.

Actually, I was thinking more in terms of this being a good game to give Gobert some time - big fourth quarter lead, Sacramento missing all their good players, pretty much no way to blow the lead even if they tried, not even any real value in putting the Core 5 against these scrubs, should give him the whole 12 minutes, but nope, he's still on the bench. I'm with E-M on this - put Gobert in.

....and he finally gets in... and Hack-a-Gobert takes him straight out again. Of course, if he'd been put in earlier, then Hack-a-Gobert wouldn't have been an option and he could have got some live practice.

 

[Hitman]

Its ok bro.... you can just admit that marv took minutes from kanter tonight in that first half.
You asked for an example and i gave you one and it only took the first half of the first game since you asked for the example

Or not, since they're both playing their normal amount of minutes.

 

[fishonjazz]

Here is what you said

Give an actual example of where MW or RJ have taken meaningful minutes from another player.

Tonight while the minutes were meaningful (close game in the first half) kanter was playing great and marvin was playing bad, yet marvin got more minutes than kanter in the first half.

How is that not an example of marvin taking meaninful minutes from kanter?

 

[fishonjazz]

Or not, since they're both playing their normal amount of minutes.

As far as this goes..... that is the whole point.
When they get thier normal minutes marvin is taking meaningful minutes from kanter.

Kanter should be averaging more minutes and marvin should be getting less

 

[Coach Ellis]

As far as this goes..... that is the whole point.
When they get thier normal minutes marvin is taking meaningful minutes from kanter.

Kanter should be averaging more minutes and marvin should be getting less

I agree with this wholeheartedly. This has always been the case for Corbin. The plain and simple fact is that it won't change unless DL takes guys like Marvin and Jefferson away from Corbin to even use. No matter how well Kanter and/or Burks play, they'll always have to sit behind guys like this when it should be the other way around.