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Ty Corbin.

franklin said:
Ty Corbin doesn't sign players, he's not Gregg Poppovich.
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Maybe not but he sure as **** decided that they deserved to play mass amounts of minutes. Minutes they did not deserve.
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This roster was better than last year and it played worse. Worse defense, worse offense. Just plain worse. The only downgrade was that Ty Corbin actually had time with them. Time that he used to make them worse.
 
gregbroncs said:
This roster was better than last year and it played worse.
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The biggest difference in quality on the roster was at the 1, where the Jazz got significantly worse (factoring in injuries). That, plus the improvements Houston, Golden State, Denver, Memphis, etc. made to their rosters. The Jazz roster was worse relative to the other playoff caliber teams in the West this past season than it was the year before.
 
GVC said:
Why? I'd like to see what I can do.

No, I wouldn't be more excited. Yes, it can get worse. Hell, there were two inferior coaches in your home state this past season.

If it remains to be seen, why do you think he has the tools to be a good coach?

Dave Hopla has a pretty good track record. I don't know about others, as I only really follow the Jazz (I know Hopla because I used to follow the Raps a bit).

And this is where I disagree with a lot of the Ty detractors. While the Jazz D left much to be desired, the defensive personnel was poor. Al Jefferson has been the only player on the team capable of consistently creating offense the last couple seasons, and Ty has tried to find lineups that complement him as much as possible. This past season, he ran a lot more sets with off-ball action with the second group (increasingly so as the season progressed), and had them push the ball whenever possible, working to their strengths. I actually consider his use of the young players together as a plus not a minus. I think he did a good job of keeping the vets happy, which created a good, positive environment for the young guys to grow in. And, contrary to what a lot of people have stated, they have grown (Gordo, Kanter and Burks all showed a lot of progress toward being effective players this season...Derrick's progress has been slower, but he was afforded a lot of halfcourt opportunities he wouldn't have gotten with the first unit).

That's not to say I loved or agreed with everything Ty did this season. The game still seems a bit fast for him, and his in-game management isn't perfect. I think this is extremely fixable, and Ty's a smart enough dude to improve. Even though Ty did cut Paul's and Al's minutes a bit this year, I thought he could have cut Al's and Foye's a bit more to give the young group more burn together (that is, while I like that he let the young guys play together for most of the season, I thought the balance of minutes between the vet group and young group wasn't perfect).

As long as the team's being handed over to the young guys, I think it was the right decision to give Ty another year. He deserves an opportunity to show what he can do with a roster that isn't a total cluster**** in transition. Given the roster he's had, however, I think the team performed pretty well, finishing about in line with their overall talent.
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I definitely disagree with you on Ty smarts. He seems to be about the stupidest coach in the league. It took him months to discover that Hayward was a starting player. He never figured out that Foye was not. He contradicts his own observations with his play time. And he made boneheaded mistakes repeatedly at the end of games and with rotations.
 
And this is where I disagree with a lot of the Ty detractors. While the Jazz D left much to be desired, the defensive personnel was poor.
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Yeah, and it became even poorer when Ty put Foye on the other team's best scorer and left Jefferson in the game at crucial times when he could've subbed in Favors. Ty just stinks as a coach, so stop defending him!
 
gregbroncs said:
It took him months to discover that Hayward was a starting player. He never figured out that Foye was not.
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Foye complemented the starting frontline almost as well as Gordo, while Gordo complemented the young guys much better than Foye could. You put Gordo with the vets, and his ability to get out in transition is wasted. You put Foye on the bench, and the young guys become slower and far less effective. How players complement each other is HUGE in basketball. I think Ty was right to have Gordo play the bulk of his minutes with Favors and Kanter, even though I disagree with the way he split minutes between Al/Kanter and Foye/Gordo.
 
GVC said:
Foye complemented the starting frontline almost as well as Gordo, while Gordo complemented the young guys much better than Foye could. You put Gordo with the vets, and his ability to get out in transition is wasted. You put Foye on the bench, and the young guys become slower and far less effective. How players complement each other is HUGE in basketball. I think Ty was right to have Gordo play the bulk of his minutes with Favors and Kanter, even though I disagree with the way he split minutes between Al/Kanter and Foye/Gordo.
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I have little problem with foye starting despite what I said. But him getting 30+ MPG was extremely stupid. He is an 18 MPG player for scoring/shooting purposes. The way he got his minutes despite matchups or his ability to hit shots was one of the most troubling things about Ty's rotations this year. Minute distribution of the big guys being by far the most disturbing.
 
gregbroncs said:
I have little problem with foye starting despite what I said. But him getting 30+ MPG was extremely stupid. He is an 18 MPG player for scoring/shooting purposes. The way he got his minutes despite matchups or his ability to hit shots was one of the most troubling things about Ty's rotations this year. Minute distribution of the big guys being by far the most disturbing.
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Agreed on Foye's minutes. Up until Hayward's minutes went up in the last month or so of the season, Foye was averaging more minutes per game than Gordo (I know I made a post critical of Ty over this at the time...especially since the available data supports the notion that Gordo is the better spotup shooter, while also being the obviously better defender).

Ty showed a willingness to reduce Millsap's role and minutes throughout the season, which in isolation was fine. That Ty didn't reduce Al's minutes/role was a head scratcher for me.

I still stand by the statement that Ty had a roster that put him in a tough situation, with a bunch of in-prime vets playing for new contracts, and young players who hadn't shown by the start of this past season that they were ready for bigger roles, both in terms of usage and leadership. Gordo, Kanter and Favors all grew immensely in this regard (I actually think playing with Tinsley was a big part of this growth, and would love to see him re-signed as the 3rd point guard), but the ramifications of relegating your veteran leaders to supporting roles mid-season could potentially be pretty destructive (in the locker room, on the court, and in handling deals with future players and their agents). Ty certainly hasn't shown that he's a great coach, but I think the FO's doing the right thing giving him another season to show what he can do with players who could stick around for a while stepping into appropriate roles.

Can anyone cite a coach with a similar roster who decided to hand the team, mid-season, over to the youth, relegating the veteran (in prime) leaders to supporting roles? Most of the time when teams make these changes, they do so by getting rid of the players standing in the way of the future (think Karl Malone and Shawn Kemp).
 
GVC said:
Agreed on Foye's minutes. Up until Hayward's minutes went up in the last month or so of the season, Foye was averaging more minutes per game than Gordo (I know I made a post critical of Ty over this at the time...especially since the available data supports the notion that Gordo is the better spotup shooter, while also being the obviously better defender).

Ty showed a willingness to reduce Millsap's role and minutes throughout the season, which in isolation was fine. That Ty didn't reduce Al's minutes/role was a head scratcher for me.

I still stand by the statement that Ty had a roster that put him in a tough situation, with a bunch of in-prime vets playing for new contracts, and young players who hadn't shown by the start of this past season that they were ready for bigger roles, both in terms of usage and leadership. Gordo, Kanter and Favors all grew immensely in this regard (I actually think playing with Tinsley was a big part of this growth, and would love to see him re-signed as the 3rd point guard), but the ramifications of relegating your veteran leaders to supporting roles mid-season could potentially be pretty destructive (in the locker room, on the court, and in handling deals with future players and their agents). Ty certainly hasn't shown that he's a great coach, but I think the FO's doing the right thing giving him another season to show what he can do with players who could stick around for a while stepping into appropriate roles.

Can anyone cite a coach with a similar roster who decided to hand the team, mid-season, over to the youth, relegating the veteran (in prime) leaders to supporting roles? Most of the time when teams make these changes, they do so by getting rid of the players standing in the way of the future (think Karl Malone and Shawn Kemp).
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Well GSW tankers had to do this this season. They had Bogut AND Biedrins VS Ezeli. They had Richard Jefferson VS Harrison Barnes. They had Jack VS Steph Curry. But Mark Jackson didn't seem to have any problems shifting and changing, integrating guys he felt was gonna make them win. He was able to somehow make it works and look at them thrive under him. Yeah, Bogut was sulking for a while there on the bench - but so what?? Jackson was the boss and everyone else fell in line and played hard for him. Because he was the leader, everyone knew what he was doing was right.

I'm just so sick of people making excuses for Ty. No Summer League. Too many expiring contracts. Too many injuries. Too many vets. He took over half way through the season. etc, etc, etc, etc.

Do you think other coaches didn't have to deal with these sorts of issues? They do!! They just simply make the appropriate changes and move on.
 
Also why is it that we're the only team where the GM had to come out and say things like "Coach is King", etc? If the coach demands and commands respect from his team, there is absolutely no need for the GM to be doing that. Did the Bulls GM have to do this for Thibs?

Okay - so you're saying Ty is a new coach, so he needs help right? How about Mark Jackson? He started after Ty in fact. Did he need the help from the GM to "back him up"?
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Well GSW tankers had to do this this season. They had Bogut AND Biedrins VS Ezeli. They had Richard Jefferson VS Harrison Barnes. They had Jack VS Steph Curry.
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Not even remotely comparable. Biedrins has been a garbage bench player for years, and Bogut started when healthy. Jefferson was brought over as a bench player (in a trade last season), and Jack was also acquired in a trade to back-up Steph (after he had already established himself as a starter). Holy ****.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Also why is it that we're the only team where the GM had to come out and say things like "Coach is King", etc?
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Uh, this is said all the time. There are teams where management becomes overly involved in the lockerroom; the Jazz are not one of those teams (although, Larry was a bit different).
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Well GSW tankers had to do this this season. They had Bogut AND Biedrins VS Ezeli. They had Richard Jefferson VS Harrison Barnes. They had Jack VS Steph Curry. But Mark Jackson didn't seem to have any problems shifting and changing, integrating guys he felt was gonna make them win. He was able to somehow make it works and look at them thrive under him. Yeah, Bogut was sulking for a while there on the bench - but so what?? Jackson was the boss and everyone else fell in line and played hard for him. Because he was the leader, everyone knew what he was doing was right.

I'm just so sick of people making excuses for Ty. No Summer League. Too many expiring contracts. Too many injuries. Too many vets. He took over half way through the season. etc, etc, etc, etc.

Do you think other coaches didn't have to deal with these sorts of issues? They do!! They just simply make the appropriate changes and move on.
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Spot on. Totally agree.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Hand on heart, if you're an owner of an NBA franchise, would you rather have Ty as the coach or Mark Jackson?
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So...you're going to continue dodging my questions and/or answering poorly? All else equal, I'd take Mark Jackson right now.
 
GVC being the voice of reason (he's always been a poster that used stats to back up his side and well thought out arguments however).

People quoting Dutch to back up their point...........uhhmm wow.


May your choice or no choice in deity have mercy on our souls.
 
I just want Ty to play the players that are producing the best, the most minutes. That is all.
 
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