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Unions... Forced Dues???

fishonjazz said:
You seem to be ready and willing to simply give up your pension because of a fear, real or imagined, that you have of the pension taking down our plant and shutting it down.

I'm sure the company hopes all of its employees share your fear and give up our pensions
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I'm just not sure that I'll be there until I retire. That's not the current reality in today's workforce. I might have two or three or four job changes between now and then. I might even have a career change or two between now and then. If rather put my money into a 401k that goes with me.
 
Gameface said:
I'm just not sure that I'll be there until I retire. That's not the current reality in today's workforce. I might have two or three or four job changes between now and then. I might even have a career change or two between now and then. If rather put my money into a 401k that goes with me.
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You are right that it is the reality for a bunch of reasons. Not all of which you named. This is why you need to spread your eggs into as many baskets as possible. Investments, savings, IRAs, pensions, Social Security, 401ks, land/water/mineral rights, hard cash...

Pensions are worth fighting for as they are a very real tool in affording our twilight years.
 
Gameface said:
I'm just not sure that I'll be there until I retire. That's not the current reality in today's workforce. I might have two or three or four job changes between now and then. I might even have a career change or two between now and then. If rather put my money into a 401k that goes with me.
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According to what I just read, you don't have to be there until you retire to take advantage of a pension:

"You're lucky enough to work for a company that provides a defined-benefit pension. But when you leave for another job, your company gives you a choice: take the pension benefit you've accrued to date in the form of a lump-sum today or wait to collect its monthly equivalent when you retire.
For instance, a woman in her early 30s is moving to a new job and was given the following choice from her current employer: take with her the $5,000 she's accrued in pension benefits so far or let the money stay in the pension plan and collect $170 a month for life when she retires in 33 years."

So if that's true and in that scenario her $170 per month for every month of her life after retirement was equal to a $5,000 lump sum, and my monthly amount at retirement is currently about $400 per month then the lump sum account must be pretty big!
This pension thing gets better and better the more I read about it. I'm glad we are having this discussion.
 
fishonjazz said:
According to what I just read, you don't have to be there until you retire to take advantage of a pension:

"You're lucky enough to work for a company that provides a defined-benefit pension. But when you leave for another job, your company gives you a choice: take the pension benefit you've accrued to date in the form of a lump-sum today or wait to collect its monthly equivalent when you retire.
For instance, a woman in her early 30s is moving to a new job and was given the following choice from her current employer: take with her the $5,000 she's accrued in pension benefits so far or let the money stay in the pension plan and collect $170 a month for life when she retires in 33 years."

So if that's true and in that scenario her $170 per month for every month of her life after retirement was equal to a $5,000 lump sum, and my monthly amount at retirement is currently about $400 per month then the lump sum account must be pretty big!
This pension thing gets better and better the more I read about it. I'm glad we are having this discussion.
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Also you can become eligible for some pensions based on years of service and not age at "retirement". Such as 20 - 25 years in law enforcement. Then you can get your pension even if you're only 40. You draw that pension and hold another job. I see it all the time.
 
Stoked said:
Also you can become eligible for some pensions based on years of service and not age at "retirement". Such as 20 - 25 years in law enforcement. Then you can get your pension even if you're only 40. You draw that pension and hold another job. I see it all the time.
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That would be bad ***
 
Stoked said:
Also you can become eligible for some pensions based on years of service and not age at "retirement". Such as 20 - 25 years in law enforcement. Then you can get your pension even if you're only 40. You draw that pension and hold another job. I see it all the time.
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Yeah. Had I stayed in the Navy I would be 4 years away from a full pension. Ugh.
 
Gameface said:
Yeah. Had I stayed in the Navy I would be 4 years away from a full pension. Ugh.
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And just to explain what that means, I would get 50% of my "high 3" meaning they would average the highest 3 years of salary and give me 50% of that per month for the rest of my life.

I was an E5 (second class petty officer) when I left the Navy after 6 years. I could have taken the test for, and maybe become, an E6 (first class petty officer) before I left, but I knew I was leaving so I didn't. Advancement beyond E6 is political and much more difficult, but I'm guessing I would probably have made chief (E7) by now. E7 might have been my ceiling, so I'll just assume my high-3 would have been at E7 pay. E7 at greater than 16 years is $4297.50 right now (that's base pay, and that's what the pension is based on. There are many allowances and other types of pay in the military, but that's besides the point). So in four years I'd be getting $2150-ish/month.

Man, I liked the Navy. Liked it more than anything I've done since. I'm a dumbass.
 
Gameface said:
And just to explain what that means, I would get 50% of my "high 3" meaning they would average the highest 3 years of salary and give me 50% of that per month for the rest of my life.

I was an E5 (second class petty officer) when I left the Navy after 6 years. I could have taken the test for, and maybe become, an E6 (first class petty officer) before I left, but I knew I was leaving so I didn't. Advancement beyond E6 is political and much more difficult, but I'm guessing I would probably have made chief (E7) by now. E7 might have been my ceiling, so I'll just assume my high-3 would have been at E7 pay. E7 at greater than 16 years is $4297.50 right now (that's base pay, and that's what the pension is based on. There are many allowances and other types of pay in the military, but that's besides the point). So in four years I'd be getting $2150-ish/month.

Man, I liked the Navy. Liked it more than anything I've done since. I'm a dumbass.
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Wow. That would be pretty sweet dude.

Dumbass
 
Gameface said:
And just to explain what that means, I would get 50% of my "high 3" meaning they would average the highest 3 years of salary and give me 50% of that per month for the rest of my life.

I was an E5 (second class petty officer) when I left the Navy after 6 years. I could have taken the test for, and maybe become, an E6 (first class petty officer) before I left, but I knew I was leaving so I didn't. Advancement beyond E6 is political and much more difficult, but I'm guessing I would probably have made chief (E7) by now. E7 might have been my ceiling, so I'll just assume my high-3 would have been at E7 pay. E7 at greater than 16 years is $4297.50 right now (that's base pay, and that's what the pension is based on. There are many allowances and other types of pay in the military, but that's besides the point). So in four years I'd be getting $2150-ish/month.

Man, I liked the Navy. Liked it more than anything I've done since. I'm a dumbass.
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Hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure there are things we all would like to go back and do differently but unfortunately that's not how life works.
 
Red Jazz Fan said:
Hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure there are things we all would like to go back and do differently but unfortunately that's not how life works.
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About a million things I would go back and do differently.
 
Gameface said:
Yeah, that's a no from me. Have no idea how it even works. If like to know the opposite, or at least how one could change their union.
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My understanding is that decertification is similar to organizing. Simple majority agrees to decertify and it's a done deal. I could be mistaken though. The biggest problem with organizing is, whomever initiates it faces "legal" retaliation from the company in the form of higher scrutiny of job performance. One would have to log all corrective actions taken against them and try to prove that they were not held to the same standards as the rest of the workforce. This is the biggest deterrent for me at the moment. The industry I'm in is transitioning to the same sales force as my employer. The problem there is that my employer analyzes the entire industry and sets their pay in the 75th percentile. The most recent company to follow this line of change is starting almost $2/hr less than what I make now. I'm doing the same job I was at ~$60,000/yr for 60% with NO merit raises. The only way the rate increases is if the entire industry raises. Buts it is trending down.





1000
 
Red Jazz Fan said:
My understanding is that decertification is similar to organizing. Simple majority agrees to decertify and it's a done deal. I could be mistaken though. The biggest problem with organizing is, whomever initiates it faces "legal" retaliation from the company in the form of higher scrutiny of job performance. One would have to log all corrective actions taken against them and try to prove that they were not held to the same standards as the rest of the workforce. This is the biggest deterrent for me at the moment. The industry I'm in is transitioning to the same sales force as my employer. The problem there is that my employer analyzes the entire industry and sets their pay in the 75th percentile. The most recent company to follow this line of change is starting almost $2/hr less than what I make now. I'm doing the same job I was at ~$60,000/yr for 60% with NO merit raises. The only way the rate increases is if the entire industry raises. Buts it is trending down.





1000
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The buyout company that purchased my wife's previous employer went to that 75th percentile model. The problem I see is when all of CorpUSA goes to the same standard then how the hell does anyone ever get a real raise? They seem to have this raise thing down to a science. My wife doesn't even get a guaranteed COLA any longer.
 
Gameface said:
And just to explain what that means, I would get 50% of my "high 3" meaning they would average the highest 3 years of salary and give me 50% of that per month for the rest of my life.

I was an E5 (second class petty officer) when I left the Navy after 6 years. I could have taken the test for, and maybe become, an E6 (first class petty officer) before I left, but I knew I was leaving so I didn't. Advancement beyond E6 is political and much more difficult, but I'm guessing I would probably have made chief (E7) by now. E7 might have been my ceiling, so I'll just assume my high-3 would have been at E7 pay. E7 at greater than 16 years is $4297.50 right now (that's base pay, and that's what the pension is based on. There are many allowances and other types of pay in the military, but that's besides the point). So in four years I'd be getting $2150-ish/month.

Man, I liked the Navy. Liked it more than anything I've done since. I'm a dumbass.
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Ahh, the Golden Leash. You're one of the few lucky enough to have enjoyed what you did though. I don't like my job but I will be able to afford retiring at 51. Golden. Leash.
 
franklin said:
The buyout company that purchased my wife's previous employer went to that 75th percentile model. The problem I see is when all of CorpUSA goes to the same standard then how the hell does anyone ever get a real raise? They seem to have this raise thing down to a science. My wife doesn't even get a guaranteed COLA any longer.
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A co-worker of mine has had 3 cost of living raises in his 20+ years with the company. He's still 10 years from sniffing retirement. I'm almost 3 years there so starting over is certainly a possibility for me. That window is closing quickly though.
 
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