US Attacks Syria with UK, France

[Rubashov]

Does the US have our hands on that oil?

American and British corporations have the contracts to exploit the oil reserves so i'd say yeah. Our governments no longer pursue our interests they pursue the interests of corporations. Its the critical failure of our democracies, the capture of politics and legislators by corporations, from this we get corporate tax avoidance, the disintegration of our welfare state, erosion of environmental protections, the list goes on.

 

[Rubashov]

Ya thats why i said non existent wmd's. Im wondering what bullet was talking about when he said clinton should have handled it (iraq) before bush had to. Was clinton supposed to invade iraq for non existent wmd's first?

As for the second part of your post...... There are lots of russian military in syria currently. I worry that one of these strikes being executed by france/uk/usa hits and kills a russian soldier and that prompts russia to attack us. Then all hell breaks loose.

I doubt that if a Russian died in an air strike by the west we'd ever hear about it. Much more likely that western 'advisers' are killed by the Russians, still won't escalate the conflict.

 

[Rubashov]

After the first Iraq war in the 90s the US along with the UN Security council were conducting inspections in Iraq to ensure the WMDs and the capability to manufacture them were destroyed. That was a key part of Saddam's terms for surrender so that the US didn't invade/occupy Iraq after kicking them out of Kuwait. Under Clinton, Saddam began impeding the inspections and sometimes refusing to allow inspectors into sites they wanted to inspect. His claim was that they weren't really looking for weapons as much as just using the inspections as a means to spy on him and gather information unrelated to WMDs, which very well may have been true.

Instead of forcing the issue with the inspections, which ultimately would have allowed us to know with certainty that he no longer had WMDs before Bush Jr. took office, he pulled the inspectors and instituted sanctions and no-fly zones.

I find sanctions morally reprehensible. They harm the poorest and most powerless people far more than they harm the government they are intended to punish. I would have preferred Clinton to tell Saddam that it was either inspections or we would consider him in breach of our peace agreement and military operations against him would resume, possibly including invasion/overthrow. I would then have sent a military escort with the next group of inspectors and if they attempted to stop the inspection they would have to do so with force. If they relented then inspections would resume, if they used force against the military escort then military operations against him would resume.

The sanctions turned the Iraqi people against us. They lasted for around a decade. It drastically reduced the quality of life for average Iraqis. It was easy for Saddam to pass the blame for that onto the evil Americans.

The no-fly zones were constantly a source of conflict. Saddam would regularly target our patrol aircraft with fire control radar (lock-on) and we would frequently destroy these radar facilities in retaliation.

History has been dramatically re-written (not really, but the general understanding the whole thing is far from the reality) when it comes to Iraq.

Clinton punted the issue onto the next administration and we know where that got us. Had he taken decisive action during his administration the problem would have been much less messy, a real solution would have been much more possible. Clinton never used the military in a decisive or effective way. Not in regard to Iraq and not in the Balkans. Both were horrible atrocities that he could have done a lot to mitigate.

Excellent post, don't forget the legacy of the first Gulf War, Iraq has an incredibly high rate of juvenile cancer, probably linked to the DUP rounds used by America. Clinton lost his bottle after Somalia.

 

[Gameface]

Edit

 

[colton]

As I understand it, if the Syrians did deploy the WMDs it is a treaty violation which by treaty entitles others nations to intervene to stop the WMD deployments. zero tolerance.

I don't agree with babe on much these days, but I do agree about this. If the evidence that the Syrian government was behind this chemical weapons attack is clear and compelling, then I support this kind of strike.

 

[fishonjazz]

. If the evidence that the Syrian government was behind this chemical weapons attack is clear and compelling

Is it?

 

[Stoked]

Is it?

Who really knows. America and allies say it is and Russia and allies deny an attack even took place. I find both scenarios plausible tbh. Assad would use chemical weapons to win IMO and I can see how leaders like Macron and Trump use this to appear strong and improve poll numbers. But so far the only retaliation we know of was Russia submitting a resolution to the Security Council condemning the attack. 3 countries voted for it and 8 voted against it.

It won't be Russia and America that start a massive mid east war. It will be Israel and Iran. Isreal has already struck inside Syria a couple times, Syria has shot down an Israeli jet, Iran is using the land route through Iraq and Syria to reinforce Lebanon and Hezbollah and set up a military presence in Syria. Israel is on record as saying it will pay any price to stop Iran from having their military on their border. This is where war will come from.

 

[babe]

Who really knows. America and allies say it is and Russia and allies deny an attack even took place. I find both scenarios plausible tbh. Assad would use chemical weapons to win IMO and I can see how leaders like Macron and Trump use this to appear strong and improve poll numbers. But so far the only retaliation we know of was Russia submitting a resolution to the Security Council condemning the attack. 3 countries voted for it and 8 voted against it.

It won't be Russia and America that start a massive mid east war. It will be Israel and Iran. Isreal has already struck inside Syria a couple times, Syria has shot down an Israeli jet, Iran is using the land route through Iraq and Syria to reinforce Lebanon and Hezbollah and set up a military presence in Syria. Israel is on record as saying it will pay any price to stop Iran from having their military on their border. This is where war will come from.

Israelis have had their eye on Iran since Khomeni. Maybe before then. Seems that Hitler had some folks in the area back in 1940...... The Muslim Brotherhood is reputedly a downstream development from way back when...... Anyone ever hear about the rhetoric some anti-Israelis use? loosely, annihilation of every last Jew. Yep, not a stretch to imagine Hitler being at the root of that.....

Obama openly used US tax revenues to politically oppose Netanyahu in the recent election there, and gave the Iranians a planeload of cash to fund their crusade, and literally gave them a license to nukes. Russia has been helping Iran too. And North Korea. And China.

Not a stretch to infer that Obama promoted genocide.....not a stretch to infer that Obama "conspired" with the Russians and Chinese to ultimately annihilate every last Jew in Israel. Well, except the Russians always deal double. And Russian Jews have been "returning" to Israel... millions of them. Russian is what you hear on the streets in Jerusalem....

The British Lord Balfour pushed to create a homeland for the Jews. Made a deal with some German Jewish bankers. The Kaiser in WWI lost financial support for the war, and Germany got sacked by the West, and the palistinian homeland was opened up for the Zionists, and the arabs sorted booted about. A psychopath named Hitler noted the treason behind the German defeat, and hated the ignominious state of affairs in Germany, and managed somehow to get US industrialists to finance his political agenda.... and betrayed his benefactors. Meanwhile, in Israel, the Jewish returnees included a lot of communist ideologues, who made a deal with Stalin. "No Peace with the Arabs" to create a political liability for the United States, whose conservative Christians would always support US aid to Israel.

And so we do.

But we've had a sort of "War Party" among military and industrial cartels going on since some Brit "progressives".... Fabians.... inserted themselves into the American political arena via a little recruitment agency called "The Council on Foreign Relations" beginning in the 1890s, under the leadership of Lord Cecil Rhodes. Some of those "thinkers"..... schemers.... have been planning another Great War since the 1960s in the Mideast.....well, who knows.... maybe before that.....

Pretty sure there will be one.

Your best chance to delay or stall that is Donald Trump.... well, except for the Generals who advise him..... still, just because he's not Hillary.... and just because he is not a globalist.... and just because he is the Commander in Chief, I think the War Party will have to wait until he's impeached and removed from office, and replaced by a devout Christian moron who will think it's God's War.

The "War Party" has led us from "Remember the Maine".... the yellow journalism New York Times slogan circa 1898 that launched us into the war with Spain...we took Cuba and the Philippines(take a bow, Lord Cecil Rhodes).... through WWI, (take another bow, Lord Cecil Rhodes) with the New York Times leading the chorus with "Over There", the League of Nations(another bow for Lord Cecil Rhodes), WWII, the United Nations and endless wars everywhere.....

take your bow, Lord Cecil Rhodes with your dupe clan Rockefeller.

Lord Cecil Rhodes' world vision was white supremacist rule through artful puppetry everywhere. See the little black men dance when the white man yanks the string. Here is where the word "Racist" really belongs, but... oh my... the term has been rendered into a mindless little slogan to jiggle the public mind. A string to manipulate the public mind..... a word to rage a mob....

 

[babe]

short version.

Stoked is right.

Who really knows.

 

[Gameface]

The money Obama gave to Iran was Iranian money that we had been holding since the 70s.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

We’ve accepted 11 Syrian refugees this year.

Seems to me that if we really were concerned with Syria, maybe we could do more to help?

Can you conceive of any ways to help other than bringing them to America?

 

[babe]

The money Obama gave to Iran was Iranian money that we had been holding since the 70s.

There are several million expatriate Iranians who wish we'd help them make a democracy of Iran. We could've given them the cash. I'd have targeted the return of the cash to coincide with the first democratically-elected non-terrorist supporting Iranian government.