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Utah Reps call for Constitutional Convention

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Your theory on money is too narrow, and comes off as overly influenced by the Mises crowd (not actual Austrian economists).



A widely believed myth. There has been fractional banking since before the birth of the country. The Federal Reserve didn't bring it. The business cycle predates fractional banking by thousands of years. The cycle is inevitable, and was just as bad or worse before the creation of the Federal Reserve. There were many depressions before and only one since. We attempt to minimize it, and, we'll call them the Ron Paul crowd, wrongly blames the cycle on government. Sure government can compound or reduce the sway, but it doesn't cause the cycle.

Truth be told, "sound money" still employs the fractional reserve mechanism anytime any loan is made, whether the loan is in gold, cattle, land, or anything else. Think about this: you loan your neighbor a gold coin, she invests it in a new parlor dress for her prostitutin' bidniss, the taylor then loans it to a drunk. Two loans are outstanding from one gold coin. It's all fractional, man.

Fractional banking creates and destroys money. If we didn't have this mechanism then the government would have to get money into circulation another way. Saying "sound money" sounds nice, but it's a baseless concept with not much thought behind it. Our money is a medium of exchange. The value comes from the economic powerhouse that backs it. It's given further validity through taxing power. I'll take this system over gold any day. All gold does is get thrown in a vault and worshiped, where it does nothing to better humanity. Money is used for the benefit of all. Gold is an idol, and I'd be happier if all the world's reserves were dumped into Eyjafjallajokull.

I'm sorry but your loaning example doesn't translate to fractional banking.

Speaking of loaning to prostitutes and drunks. That is what has been happening since CRA was implemented, except they are lending out someone else's gold coin (<---ultimately the responsible tax payer ), and 20 more fake ones created out of thin air, to people who have no means to pay it back.

Our current system is nuts. Right now money=debt. The more money there is the more debt there is. If there were no debt in the money system there would be no money.

The last time our national debt was paid off was under Jackson in 1835 when he shut down the central bank.

He said, "The bold effort the present (central) bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."

A better system would be where a bank could only lend out actual deposits, 1 gold coin to 1 person or a 100% reserve requirement, AND the government couldn't increase the money supply.
 
Phyllis Schafly is still articulate and the Eagle Forum still runs an effective organization, and has picked up a lot of momentum in recent years. I cite her opinion as one that will cause many conservatives to hold off on going whole hog on the ConCon idea.

Our founding fathers included almost half who wanted slavery to be abolished in extending liberty to all people, but the price would have been two small countries both much more vulnerable to conquest. It was a practical compromise. For a while.

George Washington suffered from a view of the natives that did not favor believing they could be included in the new government in a way that would have worked. He tried to bribe one well-educated native leader, Joseph Brant, who had led a number of tribes to assist the British during our Revolutionary War, thinking maybe the Brits had "bought" him.

We passed through a narrow window of possibility in world of unworkable compromises, by the skin of our teeth. Today we could do better at including minorities in our system but we are infected with narcissism, pessimism, skepticism, and such in the place values once taught as universals by Christ before the belief system was co-opted to build statism: service, hope, and faith.

It's not about me. It's about the ideas. Sometimes stark contrasts to prevailing notions can be a good thing.

No we can't have that! The elitists know what is best and all you peasanties can just shut up about the founding fathers...they had slaves!...so we can just throw out their ideas. We have to be smarter than them because we elected chicks to congress, and we have a half black pres.
 
No we can't have that! The elitists know what is best and all you peasanties can just shut up about the founding fathers...they had slaves!...so we can just throw out their ideas. We have to be smarter than them because we elected chicks to congress, and we have a half black pres.

I'm finding your courage inspiring. I don't think you have to have a degree in economics to have ideas to talk about in sports forums, do you?

Do you think the principle of internet dominance is justified by the necessity for Statist norms?

I guess some of these dudes are worried Hopper is gonna show up again. Gosh they even sorta try to wrap their minds about that scary scary scary scenario.

Well, since you are not an economist, and I at least have read a variety of economists including Robert L. Hielbroner's "Primer on Government Spending" as well as a few paragraphs of Ludwig von Mises, perhaps I can help you out.

It's all psychological human behavior. If the gov can keep a carrot in front of the hamsters in their cages so that they can just keep running towards it, all is well. We roll outta bed and join the chorus of "I owe, I owe, so off to work I go", and we keep electing the same folks who keep printing more money. Life is good, we pay back yesterdays debt with todays dollars. We ride the balmy inflation wave and as most businessmen know, a rising tide floats all boats.

Heilbroner in his Primer explained how deficit spending runs the engines of commerce and keeps everything going. The gov just prints money, and some folks jump at it, work their little legs furiously, and spin the cylindrical cage real fast.

However, I know some young kids who are starting to wonder how they will fare in their future, with all that debt on their shoulders to begin their worklives with.

So how about the down side to all this wonderful spending? Gov largesse stimulating the economy carries some inefficiencies in its mechanism. They create demand, yes, but for what. What will folks spend their energy doing? Gov spending opens up one class of jobs, and ultimately has to derive taxes from everybody to pay the interest on the debt. Printing fiat currency means when you go to buy a car or a house, or a can of beans, there's a lot more money showing up in the market competing for the product, and we pay more for it.

Gov spending like this is a sort of tax on our future. It makes the money we're earning mean less when we try to buy something later on. A house I bought in 1975 would sell today at six times the price I paid. Meaning in effect, the next person who wants to buy it will have to pay a tax called inflation. Well, if we can keep inflation going maybe they'll feel alright in thirty five years when it's paid for and supposedly worth six times as much again. Until they sell it and have to pay all that "capital gains" on it. Well, if we keep the tax exemption on the specific capital gain on a primary residence, provided we move the sales price into another house, I guess we are alright. Except these kinds of price movements really make us all just a whole lot more inefficient in our decisions and actions. People avoiding doing the most convenient or best thing to avoid taxes. . . .

What I see is a lot of people today struggling to keep up some sort of security, with wages going down as a result of world trade treaties and job flight overseas, and wages are not keeping up very good with our expenses. No, I really don't think what we're doing is really working. . . . at least not in our interest.

I don't think SirKicky is gonna be there to help you when you get caught between that debt and your shaky little job that somebody in Bangladesh will do for mere pennies. So if it's not alright to question authority in a sports forum, I'm thinkin it might just be more worthwhile movin' on down the road.
 
Heilbroner in his Primer explained how deficit spending runs the engines of commerce and keeps everything going. The gov just prints money, and some folks jump at it, work their little legs furiously, and spin the cylindrical cage real fast.

Interested to know. Does that dude ever touch upon the law of exponents? Or what to do once the debt becomes unserviceable?
 
Interested to know. Does that dude ever touch upon the law of exponents? Or what to do once the debt becomes unserviceable?

I understand how this actually is a responsible and intelligent question, and how there might be something in this line that could be done to manage it all. I honestly just had this book out on the kitchen table, but my wife cleaned everything up and I'm not sure she didn't throw it in the trash, considering she believes herself to be an economist of the Chicago school. And since I read it forty years ago, and only recently read a few chapters once again, I might have missed something.

And if anybody wants to fill me in on this subject, I'll eventually deal with it. It might take me a few days since I'm on the road again and will not be back for a while, but I make a rule of respecting actual content in support of various views as a substitute for hyperbolic personal innuendo.
 
Interested to know. Does that dude ever touch upon the law of exponents? Or what to do once the debt becomes unserviceable?

Sufficient circulation cures this alleged problem. That's why it's discussed by the Jekyll Island crowd and ignored by the professionals.
 
I'm finding your courage inspiring. I don't think you have to have a degree in economics to have ideas to talk about in sports forums, do you?

Do you think the principle of internet dominance is justified by the necessity for Statist norms?

I guess some of these dudes are worried Hopper is gonna show up again. Gosh they even sorta try to wrap their minds about that scary scary scary scenario.

Well, since you are not an economist, and I at least have read a variety of economists including Robert L. Hielbroner's "Primer on Government Spending" as well as a few paragraphs of Ludwig von Mises, perhaps I can help you out.

It's all psychological human behavior. If the gov can keep a carrot in front of the hamsters in their cages so that they can just keep running towards it, all is well. We roll outta bed and join the chorus of "I owe, I owe, so off to work I go", and we keep electing the same folks who keep printing more money. Life is good, we pay back yesterdays debt with todays dollars. We ride the balmy inflation wave and as most businessmen know, a rising tide floats all boats.

Heilbroner in his Primer explained how deficit spending runs the engines of commerce and keeps everything going. The gov just prints money, and some folks jump at it, work their little legs furiously, and spin the cylindrical cage real fast.

However, I know some young kids who are starting to wonder how they will fare in their future, with all that debt on their shoulders to begin their worklives with.

So how about the down side to all this wonderful spending? Gov largesse stimulating the economy carries some inefficiencies in its mechanism. They create demand, yes, but for what. What will folks spend their energy doing? Gov spending opens up one class of jobs, and ultimately has to derive taxes from everybody to pay the interest on the debt. Printing fiat currency means when you go to buy a car or a house, or a can of beans, there's a lot more money showing up in the market competing for the product, and we pay more for it.

Gov spending like this is a sort of tax on our future. It makes the money we're earning mean less when we try to buy something later on. A house I bought in 1975 would sell today at six times the price I paid. Meaning in effect, the next person who wants to buy it will have to pay a tax called inflation. Well, if we can keep inflation going maybe they'll feel alright in thirty five years when it's paid for and supposedly worth six times as much again. Until they sell it and have to pay all that "capital gains" on it. Well, if we keep the tax exemption on the specific capital gain on a primary residence, provided we move the sales price into another house, I guess we are alright. Except these kinds of price movements really make us all just a whole lot more inefficient in our decisions and actions. People avoiding doing the most convenient or best thing to avoid taxes. . . .

What I see is a lot of people today struggling to keep up some sort of security, with wages going down as a result of world trade treaties and job flight overseas, and wages are not keeping up very good with our expenses. No, I really don't think what we're doing is really working. . . . at least not in our interest.

I don't think SirKicky is gonna be there to help you when you get caught between that debt and your shaky little job that somebody in Bangladesh will do for mere pennies. So if it's not alright to question authority in a sports forum, I'm thinkin it might just be more worthwhile movin' on down the road.

It is whack-a-mole. Anyone pops up that isn't impressed with their big bad selves they gotta smack down. I'm guessing the Obama Regime and the followers that go off of the conventional wisdom that he is the smartest teleprompter reader out there treat the average American with more contempt than the Founders treated the slaves they inherited.

The Scottish impress me. That Adam Smith guy had some real balls to wear a man skirt and philosophize on the Wealth of Nations while playing the bagpipes.

I guess we are supposed to be all apathetic to what the government is up to with our economy. They have it all under control. No worries.
 
I'm guessing the Obama Regime and the followers that go off of the conventional wisdom that he is the smartest teleprompter reader out there treat the average American with more contempt than the Founders treated the slaves they inherited.

I'm not certain you understand the concept of slavery.
 
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