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Warren or Sanders?

Warren or Sanders?

  • Warren

    Votes: 8 33.3%

  • Sanders

    Votes: 11 45.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 5 20.8%
  • Total voters
    24
Trump is not Nixon or Bush.

African American turnout is going to be high. Hispanic turnout is going to be high. Female turnout is going to be high.

I don't think this is a typical election. I think it's gonna be different.
 
Warren can’t handle an international crisis— she can’t even handle a question from Colbert on the tax raise needed for her health care plan. Or interview questions on her Cherokee roots, or mass incarceration.

her morals are a moving target— she’s a thermometer, Bernie is a thermostat.

Bernie all day.
 
dalamon said:
Warren can’t handle an international crisis— she can’t even handle a question from Colbert on the tax raise needed for her health care plan. Or interview questions on her Cherokee roots, or mass incarceration.

her morals are a moving target— she’s a thermometer, Bernie is a thermostat.

Bernie all day.
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The issue of her heritage and her handling of it is actually a pretty big deal and it’s strange to me that people - especially on the left - aren’t more bothered about that whole thing. She whiffed super hard, at best. I really don’t see a reason that’s not as much of a vulnerability as Hilary’s damned e-mails at the end of the day.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Just out of curiosity, what is of more importance to you, implementing new programs (student debt forgiveness, Single Payer or other Healthcare Reform, etc.) or balancing the budget to stop the increase of our Federal Debt? Can both be accomplished simultaneously? Can Democrats enact a tax rate structure that can collect enough revenue from constituents to pay for these programs, growing social security, Medicaid/Medicare, and stop the deficits?
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I'd say that healthcare reform is probably the most pressing issue, but there's no reason we couldn't tackle it and student debt at the same time.

Canceling student debt is a no brianer imo. It would create millions of jobs and actually stimulate the economy in a way the Trump tax cuts never could. The more I've become familiar with modern monetary theory the more I've realized Cheney was kind of right when he said "deficits don't matter." The government doesn't need to balance its budget in the way that a household does. In the case of student loan debt the vast majority of it is owed to the US government, we wouldn't even need to disburse any payments to eliminate it.

As for single payer healthcare, we would need to shift the costs currently spent on private insurance and out of pocket costs to a government run program. I'm no economist but I don't understand why every other developed country is capable of having a healthcare system that doesn't drive millions of households into debt and results in better health for their citizens, but the most wealthy country of all time somehow can't.
 
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Jonah said:
Overall good point comparing Trump with controversial and relatively unpopular presidents like Nixon and Bush who were both reelected, however, not sure why Eisenhower is being lumped in with Nixon in 72 and Bush in 04. Eisenhower was popular throughout his presidency and his approval leading up to the 56 election was around 70 percent.
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Not untrue - I was speaking more to the democratic nominees, Kerry, McGovern and Stevenson and their lack of relatability.

Stevenson was probably the first darling of the intellectual elite. I know this because I was taught by many of them in High School and College growing up in New York City. And even to that day (late 80's/early 90's) they just couldn't understand the appeal of such an intellectual light-weight like Eisenhower.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
This is my point. Hating the president didn't drive out enough votes to win in 2016, and it likely won't be enough to win in 2020. A charismatic, likable, moderate candidate would drive more votes than a hatred for Trump. You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

If you can check those boxes, and also be a minority, then you have a home-run candidate for the DNC.
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The reason it didn't happen in 16 is because no one thought Trump would win. So they stayed home.
I think people believe he can win now so they won't stay home. This seems obvious. 2020 is different than 2016.

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Zombie said:
I'd say that healthcare reform is probably the most pressing issue, but there's no reason we couldn't tackle it and student debt at the same time.

Canceling student debt is a no brianer imo. It would created millions a jobs and actually stimulate the economy in a way the Trump tax cuts never could. The more I've become familiar with modern monetary theory the more I've realized Cheney was kind of right when he said "deficits don't matter." The government doesn't need to balance its budget in the way that a household does. In the case of student loan debt the vast majority of it is owed to the US government, we wouldn't even need to disburse any payments to eliminate it.

As for single payer healthcare, we would need to shift the costs currently spent on private insurance and out of pocket costs to a government run program. I'm no economist but I don't understand why every other developed country is capable of having a healthcare system that doesn't drive millions of households into debt and results in better health for their citizens, but the most wealthy country of all time somehow can't.
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all facts-- and all reasons to #FeeltheBern
 
fishonjazz said:
The reason it didn't happen in 16 is because no one thought Trump would win. So they stayed home.
I think people believe he can win now so they won't stay home. This seems obvious.

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Are you saying voter turnout was worse for the 2016 presidential election than previous elections?
 
NPC D4617 said:
Are you saying voter turnout was worse for the 2016 presidential election than previous elections?
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I think you can read.
Look at my post and see if I mentioned any elections prior to 2016.
There is your answer.

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fishonjazz said:
I think you can read.
Look at my post and see if I mentioned any elections prior to 2016.
There is your answer.

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I can read. This is exactly what you said

"The reason it didn't happen in 16 is because no one thought Trump would win. So they stayed home."

Are you really trying to say that you arent comparing 16 to any other election, and it just stands alone as some non helpful phrase that doesnt really mean anything? Just a word a salad?

You said "the reason it didnt happen in 16"
As opposed to the reason it DID happen in ?? What year?
 
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fishonjazz said:
The reason it didn't happen in 16 is because no one thought Trump would win. So they stayed home.
I think people believe he can win now so they won't stay home. This seems obvious. 2020 is different than 2016.
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I haven't met anyone, not a single person, that has told me they decided not to vote in 2016 because they assumed Trump would lose and now suddenly they are committed to making the effort in 2020. I know some of those people exist, but I just don't think it's as many people as some assume.
Also, a lot of the people that hate the guy and are driven to vote against him live in blue states anyway. More votes in California and NY are not going to win the presidency for the DNC.
My only point was that a moderate, charismatic candidate that can drive out minority voters would be a much better plan for the DNC than relying on Trump hate.
 
NPC D4617 said:
I can read. This is exactly what you said

"The reason it didn't happen in 16 is because no one thought Trump would win. So they stayed home."

Are you really trying to say that you arent comparing 16 to any other election, and it just stands alone as some non helpful phrase that doesnt really mean anything? Just a word a salad?

You said "the reason it didnt happen in 16"
As opposed to the reason it DID happen in ?? What year?
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2020 is the election I was comparing 2016 with obviously.
Like im saying that in 2020 more people will vote than in 2016.

I guess you can't read

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AlaskanAssassin said:
I haven't met anyone, not a single person, that has told me they decided not to vote in 2016 because they assumed Trump would lose and now suddenly they are committed to making the effort in 2020. I know some of those people exist, but I just don't think it's as many people as some assume.
Also, a lot of the people that hate the guy and are driven to vote against him live in blue states anyway. More votes in California and NY are not going to win the presidency for the DNC.
My only point was that a moderate, charismatic candidate that can drive out minority voters would be a much better plan for the DNC than relying on Trump hate.
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Do you think there were any people who voted 3rd party who wanted anyone but Trump to win who figured he had no chance?

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AlaskanAssassin said:
I haven't met anyone, not a single person, that has told me they decided not to vote in 2016 because they assumed Trump would lose and now suddenly they are committed to making the effort in 2020. I know some of those people exist, but I just don't think it's as many people as some assume.
Also, a lot of the people that hate the guy and are driven to vote against him live in blue states anyway. More votes in California and NY are not going to win the presidency for the DNC.
My only point was that a moderate, charismatic candidate that can drive out minority voters would be a much better plan for the DNC than relying on Trump hate.
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He doesnt know what he is talking about anyways. Voter turn out was no different last election. Except that there were more voters this time around than any other year. More will vote this next election too. Its not hard to predict.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
I haven't met anyone, not a single person, that has told me they decided not to vote in 2016 because they assumed Trump would lose and now suddenly they are committed to making the effort in 2020. I know some of those people exist, but I just don't think it's as many people as some assume.
Also, a lot of the people that hate the guy and are driven to vote against him live in blue states anyway. More votes in California and NY are not going to win the presidency for the DNC.
My only point was that a moderate, charismatic candidate that can drive out minority voters would be a much better plan for the DNC than relying on Trump hate.
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Well, I decided to vote Stein because I never thought Trump would win, which is the same thing. I hated Hillary but she is many times better than Trump.
 
NPC D4617 said:
And I guess you cant think because more people voted last election than any other year. So you made no point.

Derp.
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My point was that more people will vote in 2020 than 2016. And i see that you just said that in your last post. Arguing with yourself i guess.


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