Yeah, Milsap is obviously so valued by you.
Well...so much for trading AK.
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
Yea I got that. I just really don't think they will be able or willing to do so. If Memo comes back at his pre injury level I still think he's worth that contract to the Jazz. If he doesn't then nobody else is going to want him.
AK is MAYBE worth more than the mid-level, ONLY if he can play atleast 72 games this year and be a solid contributor in the playoffs. (Even then it is debatable) Otherwise, it would be foolish to spend 8-9 mil year on a guy who has screwed this franchise for the last 5 years, essentially denying them a chance at contention all by himself. If the Jazz FO can redeem themselves then they will have to somehow make AK agree for the mid-level. If not, let them ask him to take a hike, especially if a team like Porty starts playing games with us again and gets into a bidding war. A 30+ guy who missed 15 games every year and ewas never a big factor in the playoffs for the past 5 years should'nt be getting anything more than the mid-level. I could care less if he can fill up the boxscores for about 2 months every season.When we needed the help the most in the playoffs he has never been a big X-factor for us, injuries or otherwise.
And small forward, thankfully, is not that tough a position to fill in the NBA, like maybe a center. And if Hayward shows a lot of promise and hopefully develops fast, why would we need a 30+guy with perennial back spasms and assorted injury history?
It will be interesting to wait and see though, if those back spasms magically disappear in a contract year.
And small forward, thankfully, is not that tough a position to fill in the NBA, like maybe a center. And if Hayward shows a lot of promise and hopefully develops fast, why would we need a 30+guy with perennial back spasms and assorted injury history?
It will be interesting to wait and see though, if those back spasms magically disappear in a contract year.
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
Whatever, vj. I would love to rescue you from the depths of your cipher-reputation (Rep Power = 0), but not on the basis of your extreme rant here.
It's a free country. Larry and company willingly overpaid Kirilenko, and AK accepted, just like any rational player would. If the Jazz had waited a year, he'd be already on a cheaper deal. Besides his "whinergate" incident in the playoffs, where it can be argued that both he and Sloan could've communicated better, AK's been among the least of our worries for contributing. A $17 million contributor? No way. But an MLE contributor? Tampoco.
Many of the top small forwards not named LBJ or Crymelo (Tayshaun Prince, Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace) are on contracts averaging $9 million to $11 million now. Artest is on an MLE deal, but it can be argued that (1) his past attitude warranted a discount, and (2) the opportunity to have an excellent shot at a championship came in exchange for a discount, too. So to say that AK is barely worth the MLE, even with injuries, is quite far-fetched.
Some argue that he still plays out of position. I'm not so sure, but he's improved a bit in terms of seeming to be a better outside shooter.
https://www.thoughtsfromthejockstra...2009/top-10-nba-small-forwards-2009-2010.html
Just watch how this season is better--not only becuase it's a contract year but also because Boozer isn't in the paint pushing his own teammates out of the way for rebounds and not enabling AK and others help him play defense. AK and Millsap play well together, and they are of similar value according to the following data. In other words, around $8 million per--give or take a million.
https://basketballvalue.com/teampla...summary&sortnumber=92&sortorder=DESC&team=UTA
The recent injury risk is a problem. But I still think that it is incidental. He plays haphazardly, but hopefuly the trainers do what they can to minimize the risk.
https://www.nba.com/jazz/news/042010_kirilenko_update.html
As for Elder Hayward being able to replace what AK does, I'm not holding my breath. Hayward's upside--a few years from now--is to be a rich man's Korver, not a poor man's Kirilenko. If AK stays in the NBA, I predict that he re-signs with the Jazz at the end of the season for a high seven-figure deal.
Play in Brooklyn? I don't see it happening.
yeah lets sign your boy Fesenko for the MAX instead. Might cure your Asperger syndrome one of these days.
As for AK, he will be a 30+ role player with increasing back spasm (and other) problems and who has'nt been a big factor in any of the playoff series over the last 4 years. Oh, he surely deserves a 9 mil per yer contract, right? Because it wont be the Utah Jazz if we did'nt have atleast one overpaid role player on the team consistently underperforming in the playoffs.
So, Boozer prevented AK from helping him play better defense? Funny crap.
If you had read my post carefully, actually the very first line, I had talked about giving him MORE than the mid-level as the debatable part, especially if he doesnt have a stellar season. I never said he was not worth or "barely worth" the mid-level. I even said the Jazz FO can redeem themselves by making AK agree to a mid-level contract. Which part of that did you not get?
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InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
Why further lower your credibility by making and irrelevant comment--and by resorting to hyperbole? Even I would acknowledge that Fes is not worth the max and is probably not worth the MLE.
I guess it depends on what you call "big factor". While the injuries of the last two seasons are a big negative, it doesn't relegate Kirilenko to the MLE. He started every game of the first two playoff seasons of the past four years, and he averaged nearly 10 points per game and more than 2 blocks per game in those playoff tournaments. In the real world (not yours), the standard for such production is more than the MLE.
Not funny at all. It is widely known that Boozer is a pathetic defender, and it's difficult to provide good help defense if the initial man-to-man defense sucks. Unlike your spewing, I'll actually provide a citation also.
It's also no secret that Kirilenko's involvement in the offense and "touches" went way down with Carlos Boozer, who probably didn't put forth any effort whatsoever in involving AK in the offense because it potentially would've reduced CB's precious stat line.
OK yes, I misread that had actually allowed the notion that AK would warrant more than the MLE. My apologies.
Then you go on to say that it's "foolish to spend 8-9 mil year on a guy who has screwed this franchise for the last 5 years" when his effort has been decent--not outstanding--and wasn't screwing anybody; he was playing under an arms-length, two-way contract, and he wasn't even using his "free pass" from Masha (lol).
The tone of your rant struck me as undervaluing AK, and the SF "comps" are well above the MLE. You confirmed that the Jazz "can redeem themselves by making AK agree to a mid-level contract." Such a notion is silly; few players--if any--do that. Under your logic, the Jazz owe Matthews a check for starting much of the season on a minimum rookie contract << rolleyes >>.
AK can easily go back to Russia for big money or to the Nets for reasonable money. He doesn't have to right a wrong salarywise when it was the Jazz who were in error for giving him so much money. He's not a max guy, but he's not an MLE guy, either.
That's what I focused on, and that's what I stand by.
AK owes us one great year, and then we need to part ways with him.
Ummm, if he gives us a great year, then dont you think we should try to re-sign him? If it were not for the injuries last year he was having a great season. Of course therein lies the problem with AK.
Forget 4 years. Signing AK to 4 after his 10th season, with all his back problems and proneness to injury is absurd. KOC and the entire Jazz organization know it, including AK. AK has 2 more productive years in him. Anything over that will be a bonus to AK's retirement fund. So forget signing the guy to 4 years, unless you're going to taper off his pay to nothing after 2. AK wouldn't go for that since it's not a gamble signing for 2 and giving up the following 2 for a minimum offer. He'll take more up front for less years--most likely 2. That's what GM's and players do in this league. The GM offers more now for less years. The player gets more per year but has less years in an NBA guaranteed contract. See Okur's resign last year.
So you have to decide what he's worth for 2 years, 3 max. He may get 8-10/yr for 2, or something like 20-24 over 3 is my best guess.
My opinion is I don't care if he leaves for 8 -10 per or the MLE since I don't think AK puts the Jazz over the hump. They might as well save the money to splurge later if given the chance.
So you have to decide what he's worth for 2 years, 3 max. He may get 8-10/yr for 2, or something like 20-24 over 3 is my best guess.
My opinion is I don't care if he leaves for 8 -10 per or the MLE since I don't think AK puts the Jazz over the hump. They might as well save the money to splurge later if given the chance.
theNBAnerd
Well-Known Member
the funny thing is, AK could absolutely be the swing player this year, the guy who makes the difference between 45 wins and 55 wins. if he has the kind of year i think he might -- with KOC already having hinted to a bigger role for AK -- we might all chuckle a year from now that people questioned whether he was worth 7M.
BUT... even if that happens, he's going to be a 30-year-old free agent. history doesn't bode well for guys who sign long-term deals at that age. that could put the jazz in an interesting position with AK next summer. if he has a turn-around season (and he might) they have to figure out if it's fluke rule stuff or a sign that the changes put him in a prominent role and let his strengths show.
let's not forget, the last time the jazz relied on AK every time down the floor, he was an all-star.
BUT... even if that happens, he's going to be a 30-year-old free agent. history doesn't bode well for guys who sign long-term deals at that age. that could put the jazz in an interesting position with AK next summer. if he has a turn-around season (and he might) they have to figure out if it's fluke rule stuff or a sign that the changes put him in a prominent role and let his strengths show.
let's not forget, the last time the jazz relied on AK every time down the floor, he was an all-star.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I don't think the Jazz put themselves in a great position if they wait until next summer. Age and injuries should be factored into contract proposals. But the time to strike is training camp when AK shows up healthy for inspection. Years on the deal always vary with the price. But they would be foolish not to negotiate at 3/4 seasons before the season.
theNBAnerd
Well-Known Member
you're talking extension? oh man, jazzfanz would go nuts.
but i'll play along. let's say he shows up like a new man and they're ready to get him more involved and they sit down to discuss a 3-year extension. how much?
but i'll play along. let's say he shows up like a new man and they're ready to get him more involved and they sit down to discuss a 3-year extension. how much?