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what do you think ? Jazz should not rush to trade Enes Kanter

The jumpshot from the elbow was my one move when I was actually decent in basketball. If I could get that, Rudy can too.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Passing is one of the hardest things to do in basketball. You have to see the whole court know where guys are and read where defenders are going. If you don't do it quickly the lanes close. I think it's much harder personally.

I coach 1st and 2nd grade basketball... all of them can shoot and score... One of them can pass. It's like being a quarterback... generally it takes a lot of studying and the right kind of intelligence. I don't think Kanter is stupid, but I think he's a stupid basketball player. I agree with Cy if he figures this out he'll be amazing on offense... if not he a decent bench big that can get you some buckets if you feed him.
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Agree with your assessment of Kanter.

Also, what I think you are talking about with passing is more actually running the offense. That is seriously hard and almost an in-born thing. You can either see the court and run the offense or you can't. It can be learned but take some hard work, and even those with the talent for it have to work their asses off to be great at it.

But I think with these guys we are just talking about simple passing. Kanter gets the ball in the block, sees the double coming and....turns right into the double team and tries to bull his way to the basket. Yikes. Why not dump it right back to the PG, or the one open guy in the corner. One, the Jazz need to do a better job as a team of giving him an easy target when he gets the ball. But, two, he needs to at least TRY to find someone to pass it to.

Burke just needs to be slapped until he realizes he is supposed to be a point guard for hell's sake.
 
framer said:
We lost the game when Kanter gave up 16 points to Aldridge in the first quarter. Quinn is grooming Burke for the 6th man role who is in there to shoot off the bench. If you want a starter to pass more, you need to look over at Exum who can't even stay in the damn game and is forcing Trey to do his job too.
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Yes, LA was certainly hot. And several times Kanter actually had decent position on him. LA was just unreal! Even at that, Utah was up at halftime. IINM, Kanter wasn't in the game when Utah stank it up to start the 3rd quarter and turned a 3Pt lead into an 11-pt deficit (Gobert got the start). Absolutely agree Exum is part of the problem. The occasional good defensive play is just not enough to make up for his horrendous shooting and non-existent PG skills. Any player can take the ball at the top and hand it off to Hayward. Exum does NOTHING else. Jazz should send him to the DLeague where he can work on his game and actually develop some point guard skills.
 
Not sure Rudy will ever be a good post player. I think he might get pushed of his spot. His number one need is a consistent 15 footer. They play too far off of him and clog the middle. He's a good free throw shooter... or at least much improved, so he'll get it eventually i think.

The hook shot would be phenomenal, so long as the defender can't move him... it is an issue of not only weight, but that everyone has a lower center of gravity and physics works against him.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yes yes yes.

Hell give him one move, just ONE solid decent move around the basket and his value jumps immeasurably. I would love to see a 10-foot and in jump-hook. Just that. His release would be ridiculously high so no one could ever even bother it, let alone block it. And then boom...12 ppg, 12 rpg, 3.5 bpg, 2 apg, 1+ spg. BOOM BITCHES!

Heh.
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The thing is that Rudy, more often than not, is just standing there on the elbow when he gets the ball looking to either pass inside or kick it out. His defender generally backs off prepping for the drive, because with his arms, they aren't going to bother the pass up close. If he could shoot from there, it is open all day long and there isn't anything the other team could do about it. It isn't much different from a free throw. Favors is getting quite adept at it.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Agree with your assessment of Kanter.

Also, what I think you are talking about with passing is more actually running the offense. That is seriously hard and almost an in-born thing. You can either see the court and run the offense or you can't. It can be learned but take some hard work, and even those with the talent for it have to work their asses off to be great at it.

But I think with these guys we are just talking about simple passing. Kanter gets the ball in the block, sees the double coming and....turns right into the double team and tries to bull his way to the basket. Yikes. Why not dump it right back to the PG, or the one open guy in the corner. One, the Jazz need to do a better job as a team of giving him an easy target when he gets the ball. But, two, he needs to at least TRY to find someone to pass it to.

Burke just needs to be slapped until he realizes he is supposed to be a point guard for hell's sake.
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I agree somewhat... I think Kanter has done well when he is holding the ball up at the top of the key and moving the ball, but its a very easy pass and doesn't lead to much. I was so happy a few games ago when he moved into the middle and the defense came up and he threw it to Favors baseline (favors missed the layup) but it was a meaningful pass.

Agree on the post pass you get doubled you move it back to the passer or to the top of the key... I don't think he thinks fast enough though. Its a routine play, but has a chance of being picked off so he holds it longer than he should.

Burke is a shooting guard who is short and can't shoot. I know people say they'd like to bring him off the bench as a sixth man scorer... I'd rather get a veteran upgrade of someone who can shoot and play them with Exum. I'm kind of tired of Burke's act.
 
I read in a book somewhere that Tony dungy's defenses were so great because every read was automatic... helped with reaction times being faster... no second guessing. You'd get burned every now and again because they would run misdirection, but I think this is what Kanter needs. I do have a little hope for him because of Quin and because he seems to be listening to him. Last night when he pulled him and was talking with him I was thrilled. It wasn't yelling it was teaching. The guy is great and I think his wookie eye can actually shoot lasers and stuff.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Burke is a shooting guard who is short and can't shoot. I know people say they'd like to bring him off the bench as a sixth man scorer... I'd rather get a veteran upgrade of someone who can shoot and play them with Exum. I'm kind of tired of Burke's act.
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The more I see of him the more convinced I am that he is a wanna-be Iverson minus the flash and the ability to actually score.
 
Has Kanter ever done something with a purpose to pass? Honestly, ever?

Has he ever gotten the ball on the block, knowing that he has made a lot of shots in a row/knowing a double team is coming and made a move to draw the double team intuitively knowing someone will be open?

Most selfish player I have seen. People complain about Burke's selfishness, but Kanter is more selfish IMO.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Agree with your assessment of Kanter.

Also, what I think you are talking about with passing is more actually running the offense. That is seriously hard and almost an in-born thing. You can either see the court and run the offense or you can't. It can be learned but take some hard work, and even those with the talent for it have to work their asses off to be great at it.

But I think with these guys we are just talking about simple passing. Kanter gets the ball in the block, sees the double coming and....turns right into the double team and tries to bull his way to the basket. Yikes. Why not dump it right back to the PG, or the one open guy in the corner. One, the Jazz need to do a better job as a team of giving him an easy target when he gets the ball. But, two, he needs to at least TRY to find someone to pass it to.

Burke just needs to be slapped until he realizes he is supposed to be a point guard for hell's sake.
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Except Snyder has him coming off the bench now and wants him to be the bench's primary scorer.
 
I think Burke has looked a lot better in his new role.


I think Rudy will figure out how be a good offensive player. I'm not sure why Snyder isn't having him at least trying a few outside shots in game. It's not like we have anything to lose this season. It could help a lot going into next season. Rudy appears to be a smart man, and a gamer. I have faith he'll develop a pretty good offensive game. It's only his lanky body that's going to limit what he can do somewhat.


As far as Kanter goes, I don't like that he is a ball stopper type of player with limited defensive abilities. It's not something I think the Jazz should pay for. The game has changed, post ups are kinda bad now. If somehow we got him for real cheap, and he came off the bench, then we might have a use for him. Things would be a lot different too if we didn't have Rudy. We wouldn't have much of choice, but to double down and try to continue to develop him. He's not a complete lost cause, it's just isnt looking great.
 
Cy said:
Except Snyder has him coming off the bench now and wants him to be the bench's primary scorer.
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Yeah true, but does he have to do it to the total exclusion of involving every other player? He needs to take a cue from other scoring PGs and at least try to get others involved. Not just dribble around a big at the top of the key for 22 second then jack up a long 2.
 
I know he doesn't have the size but he could pattern his game after someone like Gilbert Arenas. Would be better than trying to be Iverson-lite.
 
I think Kanter is our third big unless/until we get a good offer for him, or have something better. If Kanter gets a contract offer that will be difficult to trade, maybe you just let him walk. As it stands, he'll give us a double-double off the bench. Good teams need guys like that. Plus, he is still developing.
 
LogGrad98 said:
The more I see of him the more convinced I am that he is a wanna-be Iverson minus the flash and the ability to actually score.
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Yep, I have been saying this for a long time. I would not a offense clogging player like Iverson on this team, let along a poor-man's version of that player.
 
Cy said:
Has Kanter ever done something with a purpose to pass? Honestly, ever?

Has he ever gotten the ball on the block, knowing that he has made a lot of shots in a row/knowing a double team is coming and made a move to draw the double team intuitively knowing someone will be open?

Most selfish player I have seen. People complain about Burke's selfishness, but Kanter is more selfish IMO.
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But it is some much more problematic when your team's PG is selfish. I wouldn't give a flying **** if Burke was selfish if he was only taking 7 shots a game or shooting a higher %. But when your selfish, shoot a poor %, have the ball a lot (PG), and take the most shots on the team, it is a big ****ing problem. Yes, Kanter needs to read the defense better, and learn to pass out of the double team. If he isn't doubled, he has a very good chance of scoring on the post, so I don't mind him shooting.
 
Passing is a fine skill, but I really don`t see how Locke and everyone else can hit Kanter on all fronts on this issue, when Favors is averaging just an assist more per game and nobody is making him sweat for it. What Kanter lacks in passing compared to Favors, he makes up for in offensive rebounding.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Passing is one of the hardest things to do in basketball. You have to see the whole court know where guys are and read where defenders are going. If you don't do it quickly the lanes close. I think it's much harder personally.

I coach 1st and 2nd grade basketball... all of them can shoot and score... One of them can pass. It's like being a quarterback... generally it takes a lot of studying and the right kind of intelligence. I don't think Kanter is stupid, but I think he's a stupid basketball player. I agree with Cy if he figures this out he'll be amazing on offense... if not he a decent bench big that can get you some buckets if you feed him.
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Yep, good passing and court awareness are very rare. It's much easier to shoot, since you are aiming at a stationary target... with passing you have to account for the movement of 9 other people and their flow, as well as for predetermined offensive schemes.

To me it looks like Enes simply can't think fast enough. He gets those brain freezes where he simply doesn't know what he should do and the help defense on him is usually extremely successful. You don't even need to put your best defender on him. Yesterday he was successful when left alone with Leonard, but the second they double teamed him, he turned it over/was tied.

I've been saying this for a while and it is counter-intuitive, because we think of Enes as good offensive player, but if Enes doesn't learn to pass he will be a liability even in offense. You cannot have a player who never passes when in the post and never passes when faced up 15 feet from the basket. At some point opponents will figure that out and will simply start double teaming him on every single possession and completely neutralize him and he will have no answer and no way out from it unless he learns to pass... I honestly don't see that happening... I've seen zero signs that it is a possibility.
 
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