What Happened to Katie?

[Stoked]

Question for stoked. How do you feel about enabling a psychological disorder? In general not specific to gender Dysphoria.

That is way to broad of a brush to paint with. Not all disorders are equal, not all require or even benefit from the same kinds of treatment, not all have the same social stigmas...

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Joe, you continue to characterize this as a loosening of standards. I don't see it that way, not at all. I see this as a strengthening of our standards.

You seem to think this will lead to the acceptance of damaging, hurtful, nonconsensual sexual assaults, because why? Because you see this as an acceptance of something negative?

This boogeyman of creepy men pretending to be transgendered so that they can lurk in bathrooms is based on what? What is stopping this from happening now? Is this a current issue that will get worse if we allow people to use the bathroom they feel most comfortable in? Or is this some new thing that will spring to life because as we move further into the abyss things are just going to get uglier and nastier?

Are bathrooms some sort of magical zone where anything goes and the only thing that has ever protected us from this is a magical barrier created by this amulet disguised as a sign?

And now that the barrier has been shattered the pervs who have been waiting in the wings are going to swoop in with the penises in full attack mode.

This is an imaginary problem.

It's an imaginary problem that has been brought to the forefront by the left, probably in hopes of getting a reaction from the right. You are crazy if you think it will stop here. Yes, lines of morality are arbitrary, but there are reasons that most people would prefer to live in a moral society, so these lines have to be drawn somewhere. In my opinion their current location is better than the one proponents of these sorts of plans want to move them to.

 

[Gameface]

It's an imaginary problem that has been brought to the forefront by the left, probably in hopes of getting a reaction from the right. You are crazy if you think it will stop here. Yes, lines of morality are arbitrary, but there are reasons that most people would prefer to live in a moral society, so these lines have to be drawn somewhere. In my opinion their current location is better than the one proponents of these sorts of plans want to move them to.

What immoral thing are you referring to?

 

[Boris]

That is way to broad of a brush to paint with. Not all disorders are equal, not all require or even benefit from the same kinds of treatment, not all have the same social stigmas...

Feel free to explain then. Say the difference between enabling a meth addict or transgender Dysphoria? Doing meth does not hurt anyone else. Why are we against that?

 

[Boris]

What immoral thing are you referring to?

Morality is a cultural phenomenon. You are not asking the correct context.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

lol, you have provided no source to support your assertion. All you did was post a link to one persons personal story. You also ignore the blaring fact that one deals with consenting adults and the other with minors.

All I see is an attempt at a hatchet job. You're better than that.

Back to the creeps angle. I do think that there will be a small upswing, momentarily, in cases of assault and violation due to this cases. But some of them will be by people trying to make a point. Either way it is not sufficient enough of a reason to oppose this change IMO

That's not true. I provided links to several websites and there are many more. I could refer you to the Man Boy Love Association, etc.

The article with the case I pointed out was on Salon, a respected news website. Read the comments. While some people are disgusted, others are praising his bravery and talking about the need for greater understanding. The same thing happened withe Bruce/Catlyn Jenner situation. Initially most people were saying WTF? Then, in a matter of months he/she is being honored as a mainstream model of bravery. We are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings or of being branded as a bigot that nobody has the guts to say, wait a second, check out where this road leads. Let's not go there.

But maybe you're right. Maybe it stops here. Maybe we will not be having a similar conversation a short time down the road where everyone is telling me that I'm insensitive for not feeling sympathy for the plight of pedophiles. We'll see.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Question for Joe, Fish and Boris.

How do you all feel about polygamy among consenting adults?

I have no problem with it. Once it involves kids (I have had personal relationships with some "lost boys" and also with some women who claim they have "escaped" polygamy), or if it moves into the realm of "milking the great Satan" (which is the Utah polygamist term for taking advantage of welfare programs, etc.) then I have a big problem with it.

 

[fishonjazz]

Question for Joe, Fish and Boris.

How do you all feel about polygamy among consenting adults?

I have zero problem with it.

I have very little problem with anything that doesn't hurt anyone. I see no victim in polygamy if everyone involved is a willing, consenting adult.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

What immoral thing are you referring to?

Any morals, but for the sake of this discussion let's make it simple. When we come upon an animal there is a handy way to make a determination if it's a male or a female. This method is not to ask it how it gender identifies. It is to actually look at its genitals and make the determination for ourselves. But now we are being told that where humans are concerned this is no longer a simple matter. It doesn't matter whether a human has a penis dangling between their legs. What matters is what sort of plumbing they wish they had.

But how are we supposed to know what type of plumbing they wish they had? What we do know is that animals with penises tend to be more aggressive in their use than animals who have vaginas are in their use. There are some very good evolutionary reasons for this. Do you need me to go into detail?

So, because we have plenty of data that many animals (including human animals) who happen to have penises (no matter how they gender identify) are interested in looking for places to insert them or things to rub them against, I would prefer that my government not mandate that they be welcomed into the girls showers.

 

[Stoked]

Feel free to explain then. Say the difference between enabling a meth addict or transgender Dysphoria? Doing meth does not hurt anyone else. Why are we against that?

Because we are told to be against it. The drug war has been pounded into the American psych. With disastrous results. I feel that a lot of things currently outlawed should be legal as long as they don't break other laws. Like driving impaired, stealing, assault, fraud, murder...

Also you're trying to stretch more and more.

 

[fishonjazz]

Doing meth does not hurt anyone else.

I disagree. From experience.

 

[Gameface]

Any morals, but for the sake of this discussion let's make it simple. When we come upon an animal there is a handy way to make a determination if it's a male or a female. This method is not to ask it how it gender identifies. It is to actually look at its genitals and make the determination for ourselves. But now we are being told that where humans are concerned this is no longer a simple matter. It doesn't matter whether a human has a penis dangling between their legs. What matters is what sort of plumbing they wish they had.

But how are we supposed to know what type of plumbing they wish they had? What we do know is that animals with penises tend to be more aggressive in their use than animals who have vaginas are in their use. There are some very good evolutionary reasons for this. Do you need me to go into detail?

So, because we have plenty of data that many animals (including human animals) who happen to have penises (no matter how they gender identify) are interested in looking for places to insert them or things to rub them against, I would prefer that my government not mandate that they be welcomed into the girls showers.

I'm still searching for the moral breakdown.

Is it immoral for a person with a penis to identify as a female?

or

Is it immoral for a person with a penis who identifies as a woman to use a woman's restroom?

or

Is it immoral for a man who identifies as a man to pretend to be a man dressed as a woman because they identify as a woman but actually don't and to then go into a woman's restroom because somehow that's a preferred place for them to rub their penis on things?


And I'm a man and a civilized, hose-broken, non-violent person. This idea that men are so sexually aggressive that they are going to use this in some extraordinarily convoluted way to get close to little girls making pee-pee doesn't follow. Like, if a perverted man wanted to get close to children all they really need to do is get a position of authority at their local church. That's how they've been doing it for thousands of years.