What Happens if We Don't Trade for Al?

[NUMBERICA]

and, fwiw, I'm not opposed to trading one or both of Big Al and Sap, I'd just hate to dump Sap to make room for Big Al, since I'm not convinced he's any better.

This sums it the **** up.

Millsap has a PER of 20.39 and Jefferson has a PER 18.24. Millsap has a +1.2 net +/- and Jefferson has a -12.5, a difference of 13.7 (that's absolutely massive). Those two indicators basically cover the spectrum of importance as fast as you can do it. Jefferson blocks more shots, so why is it that even though they're both starters and share the court most of the game, the defense is more than 10 points-per-100 better with Jefferson on the bench and the defense is 3 points-per-100 better with Millsap playing (a difference of 13.5 points)?

Even if you compare their most basic statistical numbers (which is what paints Jefferson in the most positive light), is Jefferson really worth ~$5 million more per year for basically the same numbers?

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

And yet you never show up here unless it's to bash Jefferson who, even though he's a newbie, is STILL matching all of Paul's stats, even though teams double team him constantly and he never has plays run for him.

Maybe he has no plays run for him because he has the basketball IQ of a Toadstool. Dude seems slow as ****. And I'm not talking about his ability to rotate defensively.

 

[GVC]

Couldn't you have just said Cousins + Wes > Big Al + Hayward?

Not my style.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Maybe he has no plays run for him because he has the basketball IQ of a Toadstool. Dude seems slow as ****. And I'm not talking about his ability to rotate defensively.

The funny thing is that Jefferson has a higher usage rate than Millsap but makes less of his shots, gets to the line less, and has less range. But all of those isos Jefferson gets in the post, those don't count. Once the Jazz start running plays for <50% Jefferson, they'll start to win like all of his previous teams. Which to my understanding is a lot.

If anyone can figure out where I'm being serious and where I'm being sarcastic, you'll receive a hot rep injection.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Another fun stat, Millsap scores 1.34 PPS (good for 31st in the NBA) as oppose to Jefferson's 1.14 PPS (good for 101st in the NBA).

But Jefferson's been playing better in bad games. So that's kind of good.

 

[Fishsticks]

He is playing out of position in a new offense and you expect his eeficency rating to be off the charts? Milsap should be performing the way he has. If the Jazz move Sap for a wing and let Big al own the paint you will see what kind of player he can be.

 

[NUMBERICA]

He is playing out of position in a new offense and you expect his eeficency rating to be off the charts? Milsap should be performing the way he has. If the Jazz move Sap for a wing and let Big al own the paint you will see what kind of player he can be.

His 'owning the paint' is overrated. He's done it on abysmal teams, and knowing the offense has nothing to do with how he rebounds (which is not good). He's played C for most of his career and nearly exclusively for the past few years (a big reason is to hide how bad [or slow] he is at defense, which I think is a big reason the Jazz play so much zone this year). Jefferson's played some good games recently so maybe he's starting to get it, but he's not exactly a genius or an adaptable player.

I've tried to get on the Al Jefferson train but it's a slow-moving one. I hope he learns how to produce and win someday.

 

[NUMBERICA]

The only reason I'd trade Millsap over Jefferson is because I think his trade value is significantly higher; he doesn't miss games, he's got a great b-ball IQ, he's a team-player, he's been productive/puts up very good averages [even if inconsistent], he's on a super-cheap contract because of his low cap number AND the Jazz paid $10 million of the bill up-front. Of course, for all of those reasons I'd prefer to keep Millsap instead of Jefferson if you have to get rid of one of them, but only if you can't get more with Millsap instead of Jefferson on the market.

 

[billyshelby]

I still think a lot of Al's problems have to do with adjusting to the offense. But the one thing he absolutely CAN to do right NOW is go harder after the offensive glass. At least 2 or 3 times every night I see him spectating or starting back when a shot goes up.

Not many teams in the league have 2 frontcourt players as good as we do even if neither are All Stars. That's an advantage. But we can't get the most out of it unless they're both trying to feast off each other's misses. They should get so many easy buckets off one another and they don't. The big key is Al recognizing Deron playing pick and pop with Sap or the P&R. He should be basically be breaking right with him without stepping on the play. But he's just not seeing these things yet.

 

[vj_74]

The only reason I'd trade Millsap over Jefferson is because I think his trade value is significantly higher; he doesn't miss games, he's got a great b-ball IQ, he's a team-player, he's been productive/puts up very good averages [even if inconsistent], he's on a super-cheap contract because of his low cap number AND the Jazz paid $10 million of the bill up-front. Of course, for all of those reasons I'd prefer to keep Millsap instead of Jefferson if you have to get rid of one of them, but only if you can't get more with Millsap instead of Jefferson on the market.

Just because Millsap comes cheap doesnt mean he is a starter caliber PF on a contender who can be the second option night in and night out. He has shown this season why he is just a little above a good role player. A Luois Scola type player as someone mentioned before. He can be a great sixth man for us.

You put a 6-8 and a 6-10 player out there in the frontcourt night in and night out, you should'nt be surprised when they get worn down or get beaten on the boards. Unless you are Rodman or Kevin Love you are not going to beat too many teams with that kind of size.

The ideal thing would be to have a true center starting alongside Al Jefferson. And a good shooting guard. Neither of this is going to happen anytime soon.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Just because Millsap comes cheap doesnt mean he is a starter caliber PF on a contender who can be the second option night in and night out. He has shown this season why he is just a little above a good role player. A Luois Scola type player as someone mentioned before. He can be a great sixth man for us.

You put a 6-8 and a 6-10 player out there in the frontcourt night in and night out, you should'nt be surprised when they get worn down or get beaten on the boards. Unless you are Rodman or Kevin Love you are not going to beat too many teams with that kind of size.

The ideal thing would be to have a true center starting alongside Al Jefferson. And a good shooting guard. Neither of this is going to happen anytime soon.

To be a starting PF, you have to be a 2nd option?

You're not giving Millsap nearly enough credit. Sustaining 18/8 for more than half a season as a role player (which he is) and doing so in ways that only help or don't disrupt the offense or defense is a tremendous achievement. To say that because he isn't a cornerstone on a contender means he's not worth anything is totally ****ing asinine.

Did you even read the post you're responding to? Did I say Millsap was untouchable?

 

[vj_74]

To be a starting PF, you have to be a 2nd option?

On the Jazz you most likely are. When was the last time the Jazz had an offense in which the PF wasnt the first or second option?
This season the Jazz are asking Millsap to be the second or third option on all nights and on some nights he just doesnt have it.

Even if he isnt the second or third option he is still undersized on most nights. If Millsap HAS to be the starting PF, then we better have a 6-11 to 7-1 tall center banging down low in the post. As a tandem Al and Paul are undersized. "Big" Al seems to be a misnomer on quite a few nights. Like tonight, when he goes up against Bynum.
Millsap vs Gasol/Odom will also be fun to watch