Now that is intriguing. I might do it. I'd have to pay closer attention to who is where though in the draft.
What would you give up for a top 3 pick?
- Thread starter margodydek
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Now that is intriguing. I might do it. I'd have to pay closer attention to who is where though in the draft.
Yep.
For the record, I think Millsap is the only veteran player on this team that can stay and remain a major contributor through this rebuild. He plays better around better players, and other players play better when he's on the floor.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
And there were only TWO good players in the draft last year (Irving, Williams) in what was the worst draft in a decade. Yet, somehow, we wound up with Kanter and Burks, who both look like they'll have excellent NBA careers.
I'd rather keep both picks if we have them. Yes, we could end up with a Snyder/Humphries situation. But we could also trade up and get an Oden, Marvin Williams, etc. Big guys always go higher; fortunately we aren't in the market for a center or power forward. Looking at the prospects, I think it reasonable to assume we will end up with a couple of good wings, or maybe a wing + Lillard. Jazz have potentially 5 good assets: the Memo TPE, the expirings of Harris, Jefferson (and/or Millsap) and one or two lottery picks. The tax hit becomes very punitive in 2 years for teams over the limit, so I think KOC has a great opportunity to use the TPE and those expirings to add a couple of good players. Combine those with lottery picks, and Utah could even pick up very good veteran starters. That might be how KOC tries to play it, given the youth we already have.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
The AK approach. Favors sure looked like AK on some of those blocks last night, coming over on help defense, getting blocks from behind. If he could just develop some consistency, I'd start to get a real man crush.
That is way too much to give up. First, Millsap is a borderline All-star and has proven more than any potential draft pick. Now you want to also give them two lottery picks. Heck I am not sure that Davis is worth that. THe only guy I would try to move up to get is Davis and I have questions about his offensive game and his ability to stand up to actually men who play in the NBA. He is really SKINNY!.
I think the Jazz should use patience and acquire as much young talent as possible. Then they can either trade AJ/Harris/Millsap for a veteran in a position of need.
The other issue starts with finding a team who is dumb enough to move down in a draft that has a lot of depth but few superstar (potential) players. The Jazz best bet is to get extremely lucky with their pick and not have to move up.
I want to mouth kiss you right now. Thank you! rep'd!
Yeah, Favors does that better than Kanter too. His pick n roll defense, his perimeter defense, and his man D down low is usually better than Kanter's.
Favors is much more than a "highlight" defender.
I never said that's all he was, but he definitely goes from 0 to defense if there's a highlight play to be made. And he doesn't move his feet better. I'm consistently surprised at how often it looks like Favors feet are dragging on the perimeter or that he refuses to even attempt to guard stretch 4s. Or how often he doesn't show hard on pick and roll D.
Look, I like Favors, but Favors' biggest impediment to being better than he is is himself. You will find no disagreement from anyone that Favors SHOULD be the better defender, whether he actually is or not.
If you put any stock into on/off court points allowed, 48-minute and pace adjusted, Kanter is the better defender (In order: Kanter, Favors, Millsap, Jefferson). That is to say, Favors is still a very good defensive player, but he could be a total nightmare for other teams but he's not (yet?).
He does have a problem guarding stretch 4's (not off the dribble, just closing on the shots), no doubt. But I find his pick n roll defense to be by far the most superior on the team.
Kanter's biggest problem as a player right now is that he doesn't flop. Especially on the defensive side. If he didn't get called for so many non-sense fouls where he's simply in the right spot on the floor, still as a statue, with his arms up then his defensive numbers would look even better. Hopefully the refs stop being retarded dicks about that so I don't have to watch another man succumb to the theater of sports.
I think you had a typo there and meant to say "jump" instead of "flop". Kanter has a lot of promise and I like him, but you couldn't slide a piece of paper under his feet as he elevates. His other big deficiency is easier to correct and that is that he shouldn't bring the ball down so low when he rebounds.
"Player" is highlighted for a reason.
I don't think elevation is his problem. Tons of centers in the NBA are his size and don't have great verticals. He just has to learn to get his shot off better. Right now it looks like he is just tossing the ball at the rim, usually with terrible balance.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
This. In the 2nd-half against Phoenix Favors deflected 2 Steve Nash passes on side screen-roll (I think one was a kicked ball and the other went out of bounds). Those are huge plays - even if the other team retains possession you're still disrupting their offense with deflections. IMO those 2 plays speak volumes about the potential he has on the defensive side because you can find bigs who can rebound, you can find long guys who can block shots, but you don't often find guys who can rebound, block shots, and show and recover on screen-roll.
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Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Ummm no, if you jump, you're going to get called for the foul every time. Much better to get and hold position, especially if you do so early further out on teh court and don't let the opposing center take you inside. You'll give up fewer points, and be in a better position to rebound as you already have that player behind you. Great position, hands straight up, and make the center shoot over you.
margodydek
Well-Known Member
I don't think there's many out there that would argue against this point, but in case there are I have two words: Tim Duncan.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
As far as Kanter and his defense - imo the only issue I see now is alot of the unesssary/touch fouls he picks up which often lead to more passive play where he won't always challenge shots. IMO it's a combination of inexperience from Kanter and poor judgement on the officials.
On one hand, Kanter's often in good position and if he were a reputable positional defender like Jason Collins or Kenderick Perkins - it's unlikely he would be called for as many fouls as he is. On the other hand, he often puts his arms up too quickly - which as Bill Walton always pointed out - is a signal to the refs that you're waiving the white flag and bailing out as a defender on the play and gives them more freedom to call a foul if there's any type of contact. As Kanter learns both when to challenge shots and gains more respect from the officials, I think he will be an above-average defender at the center position. Not an elite shotblocker or guy who completely shuts down the paint but a Kenderick Perkins-type who plays terrific low-post defense on the defensive end.
On one hand, Kanter's often in good position and if he were a reputable positional defender like Jason Collins or Kenderick Perkins - it's unlikely he would be called for as many fouls as he is. On the other hand, he often puts his arms up too quickly - which as Bill Walton always pointed out - is a signal to the refs that you're waiving the white flag and bailing out as a defender on the play and gives them more freedom to call a foul if there's any type of contact. As Kanter learns both when to challenge shots and gains more respect from the officials, I think he will be an above-average defender at the center position. Not an elite shotblocker or guy who completely shuts down the paint but a Kenderick Perkins-type who plays terrific low-post defense on the defensive end.
I feel it necessary to once again add that the facts show that the Jazz play better defense with Kanter on the floor than they do with any other big. The difference between Kanter (1) and Jefferson (4) is more than 11 points per 100 possessions. He's already past 'above-average'.
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
Davis is the only one I'd give up about anything for. I think Miller might be as good as Barnes and I like our bigs better than Drummond or Robinson. I love K-G but not top 3.
I'd probably be willing to overpay and give up a lot more than others would if it would get the Jazz Davis. I liked what Zulu said about trading with Washington if they got the top pick.
I'd probably be willing to overpay and give up a lot more than others would if it would get the Jazz Davis. I liked what Zulu said about trading with Washington if they got the top pick.
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
I'd give them Kanter + one of our first round picks + a vet: Millsap or Jefferson or whatever I dunno. It's all hypothetical that I don't care to continue. KOC will do what KOC will do, and it will be conservative but probably ok.