When will Jefferson have breakout season?

[Deleted member 848]

One gripe I would like to point out, simply because I can and I find this annoying....

Look. I love that the Turks have come to share in the collective good and excitment that Kanter brings to this board and the Jazz. But ****, I'm tired of listening to the obvious jabs at our existing bigs in an attempt to somehow make room for Kanter. Like we should scrap all of our bigmen and start Kanter. Please mother*******. Kanter is good, and will perhaps be really good, but the kid needs to pay his dues and prove himself. Until then, Al and Sal aren't going anywhere. And sure as **** Kanter is not taking one of their spots until he shows he can play in the NBA. I'm excited about Kanter, but this whole "Big Al sucks, make room for Kanter" bull**** has got to stop. It's stupid and annoying as ****.

Great post. I don't want to clump all the turks together; some of them, like Aybars and memoismoney tend to contribute very positively. Theres definitely one that sticks out from the pack though, we all know who I'm talking about. Claims about Kanter being great defensively, and being at WORST an equitable post-force to one of the best in the league are astonishing

 

[sepanol]

And Sepanol, you saying that Kanter's post moves are close to as good as Big Als AT WORST is one of the most laughable claims I have ever read on this forum. Not gonna argue Kanter vs Al with you any longer, it is painfully evident that you will side with your fellow-countryman until the end, no matter what.

Well i supported Kanter from the day one and it is no secret, but it is not because my countryman, it is because he is a very promising player. I honestly dont see any important weaknesses on his game like Big Al has, and you should make something clear, blocking is not directly related to being a good defender. Big Al has a good blocking timing but there are many other things in defense that you have to do. He blocks shots but he doesnt really alter shots, he has no lateral quickness, he is a very bad pick and roll defender, and he doesnt use his brain in the game generally.
These are big obstacles if you wanna be an elite big man in the league. I dont say Kanter will for sure, but i think so, and i am pretty sure he will be better than Big Al overall and you dont need to be a basketball guru to make this guess

 

[sepanol]

Easy. Back to the basket scoring, man-to-man defense, help defense too (consider Boozer plays no defense), durability, attitude, ability to score against taller players, etc.

Attitude i am not sure, and we will see it more clear this year, when he will get benched in certain games. Man to man defense and help defense , i cant say he does it very well, just because Boozer sucks he may seem better.

I also think Big Al is a better player but that is not mainly because he is a very good player , it is rather because Boozer sucks, who the hell would give him a 80 million 5 year contract, we are really lucky to have KOC as our manager

 

[sepanol]

I am going to remember you saying that. Not that I don't hope that would happen cuz if it does happen, that means that Jazz hit a jackpot with that NJ pick, but to say that Kanter is going to be better than Al before he plays an NBA game against serious competition is just absurd.

I can give you that Kanter hustles on the defensive end but I didn't see his defense being superior to Al's, even considered the difference of competition they were facing. Plus, if Al has Asik behind him, he might all of a sudden become a better defender than what people think of him.

If you are talking about the eurobasket games, he didnt really had much time together with Omer Asik, he played center more than PF. And he was mostly with Oguz Savas which isnt a very good defender also.

Anyway, you may call it absurd, but thats just what i see. I dont believe one player will change all of a sudden and play completely different. I dont see Kanter failing in nba, maybe he may not end up being the star player as i expect but i am adamant on the idea that he will be a better player than Big Al overall.

 

[sepanol]

When all you did was use statistics to suggest that he wasn't average.

Sorry, but you're in the minority here. Most people have seen enough of Big Al to see what he truly is. An average big man who can score in bunches (especially against stupid super aggressive bigs who will fall for his cheap fakes), but never be depended on as an offensive player. A shotblocker who rotates slowly, isn't athletic enough to hedge, and is relatively soft. Sure, he might block a shot or two due his his height. But never a defensive stopper.

Again, he's good. Not great. Not bad. Just good.

It's not an insult. It's just reality.

You read my mind i think

 

[sepanol]

One gripe I would like to point out, simply because I can and I find this annoying....

Look. I love that the Turks have come to share in the collective good and excitment that Kanter brings to this board and the Jazz. But ****, I'm tired of listening to the obvious jabs at our existing bigs in an attempt to somehow make room for Kanter. Like we should scrap all of our bigmen and start Kanter. Please mother*******. Kanter is good, and will perhaps be really good, but the kid needs to pay his dues and prove himself. Until then, Al and Sal aren't going anywhere. And sure as **** Kanter is not taking one of their spots until he shows he can play in the NBA. I'm excited about Kanter, but this whole "Big Al sucks, make room for Kanter" bull**** has got to stop. It's stupid and annoying as ****.

I am a utah fan since Kanter was matching his big brother Memo when he was shooting 3s against Houston in 2007.(he wasnt even going to highschool then) Well it is short comparing to most of the guys here but i was a poster here long before Kanter was even mentioned in the same sentence with Utah so exclude me if you mentioned about me (Also i never rated Memo highly even though he is my countryman as well)

And i never said Big Al sucks, he is just a good player who isnt worth giving 14 million per year, do we agree here? or anyone thinks opposite of me

So i guess the point i argue with everyone is that i want him to leave right now while people wants him to stay, am i right till here?

So i wonder, while we have so much flexibility in the big man rotation, having promising players like Kanter and Favors, why do we not use him as a trade asset, or instead people want him to stay 2 more years until he proves he cant be our franchise guy and leaves without letting us gain any assets in return and signing 80 million for 5 year deal with another stupid team just like Chicago did with Boozer?

So is it the only thing we arguing about? Because i am really looking at the fact from logical and management side, (not even basketball side) or are there really people who believes Big Al is the man, he will carry us in his shoulders to the nba finals once the other players around him gets better?

 

[GVC]

We're supposed to be talking about Jefferson in this thread, not Boozer ;-)

Uh...I'm not a big Boozer fan, and I think it was the right decision to let him go, but he was both a lot more efficient scoring the basketball and a lot better at team play on the offensive side of the court with the Jazz than Big Al was last season. I was definitely talking about Jefferson.

 

[GVC]

Tell me once, I'm not retarded. Don't dedicate the next 5 posts about it as if you're on some "accuracy-crusade"; if you really want to hand it to Ben10 do it over PMs.

It was my intention to only tell you once. You and Ben10 weren't willing to leave it at that. And if someone calls me wrong, I'm not just going to let that lie and deal with it in PMs. Why should I do something you and your lackey aren't willing to do?

I just expect a little intellectual honesty is all.

 

[Ben10]

It was my intention to only tell you once. You and Ben10 weren't willing to leave it at that. And if someone calls me wrong, I'm not just going to let that lie and deal with it in PMs. Why should I do something you and your lackey aren't willing to do?

I just expect a little intellectual honesty is all.

OK hold on a minute. Now I'm someone's lacky and getting insulted just because I posted the actual stats? Are you a mind reader GVC? How do you know that when he said 17 he was just pointing to a random stat? All I did was post the actual stat now I getting lumped into an argument between you and another poster. Did you even read my posts? I agreed with you in most of it or did you just stop at the part you didn't like? Get off your ******* high horse. Who made you the internet Jazz board god?

Wait never mind. I not getting involved in this because I was never trying to get into an argument in the first place. Sorry for trying to be part of the board and posting what I considered useful information.

 

[billyshelby]

One gripe I would like to point out, simply because I can and I find this annoying....

Look. I love that the Turks have come to share in the collective good and excitment that Kanter brings to this board and the Jazz. But ****, I'm tired of listening to the obvious jabs at our existing bigs in an attempt to somehow make room for Kanter. Like we should scrap all of our bigmen and start Kanter. Please mother*******. Kanter is good, and will perhaps be really good, but the kid needs to pay his dues and prove himself. Until then, Al and Sal aren't going anywhere. And sure as **** Kanter is not taking one of their spots until he shows he can play in the NBA. I'm excited about Kanter, but this whole "Big Al sucks, make room for Kanter" bull**** has got to stop. It's stupid and annoying as ****.

I completely agree, but I accept it as a substitute for what this board would have been like if we drafted Jimmer. There's only a few guys who will wet their pants in constant posts about Kanter not getting 47 minutes a night. We have been spared the tsunami of Jimmer urine. I'm grateful for that, though I am bracing for headlines like, "Jimmer scored 12 points with 3 assists last night and Burks did nothing and I'm so mad I bit a hole in my pillow and broke my night light!"

 

[GVC]

OK hold on a minute. Now I'm someone's lacky and getting insulted just because I posted the actual stats? Are you a mind reader GVC? How do you know that when he said 17 he was just pointing to a random stat? All I did was post the actual stat now I getting lumped into an argument between you and another poster. Did you even read my posts? I agreed with you in most of it or did you just stop at the part you didn't like? Get off your ******* high horse. Who made you the internet Jazz board god?

Wait never mind. I not getting involved in this because I was never trying to get into an argument in the first place. Sorry for trying to be part of the board and posting what I considered useful information.

blah blah blah.

Next time post the stats and move on then. You incorrectly told me I was wrong twice. I was respectful in my response the first time you did so, but you weren't willing to let it go at that point for some strange reason. It certainly seemed like you were trying to argue when you posted again, reasserting that I was wrong. Why should I pull my punches in the face of such obstinacy?

 

[Ben10]

blah blah blah.

Next time post the stats and move on then. You incorrectly told me I was wrong twice. I was respectful in my response the first time you did so, but you weren't willing to let it go at that point for some strange reason. It certainly seemed like you were trying to argue when you posted again, reasserting that I was wrong. Why should I pull my punches in the face of such obstinacy?

Ok lets stop for a second and reverse rolls. Lets just say that you posted the statement about 17 shots being the #. I look it up and see that it is 17.6. In my mind 17.6 is closer to 18 but it does say 17 and maybe he didn't look that close. My response would be something like Well the 17 is close to 18 but I can see were your getting the #'s from. And then go on and post what you did about Millsap being able to do is with more attempts.

For someone who doesn't think stats tell the whole story (again something I agree with) you are really obsessed with a .6
My point from the post that I made (regardless to the actual # of attempts taken) was that a player that scores 21 point a game on 50% from the floor (that is relied on by his teammates and coaches as the go to guy that can create his own shot, and is the focus of the Defense, which is what Al was expected to do up until this year) is a pretty efficiant scorer.

Me saying that you were wrong was prob a little over board as the # suggested was taken as a 17 instead of being completely accurate with the 17.6. But its still 50% from the floor. The point does stand that Millsap as not averaged 21 points a game on 50% from the field. Do I think that Millsap could reach those #'s. Maybe, but it well be hard because he isn't a player that can create his own shot on a consistent basis as the go to guy. And in most cases only the go to player on the team is going to get that many shots per game on average.

I just expect a little intellectual honesty is all.

Being called a "Lacky" and this little bit is the only reason I responded. Did I not post the exact stats for all to see? Was I not being honest somehow? I was just stating that in my mind Jefferson had accomplished what dalamon had said. In your mind it was different. Don't see how That makes me dishonest in any way when its just a matter of opinion. I have been a big fan of most of your post GVC. I read this board because I like other opinions on the team that I love. But differing opinions are what make boards like these fun, when in resorts to name calling and telling people that they are idiots ect.... thats when it gets personal. And Im not into that. So you have my apologies for anything that I have said in my posts that you took personal offense to. And I'll leave it there.